Hidden Truth/Hidden Truth.iso/data/genufo/posufos.txt

Text File | 1996-04-24 | 318KB | 6,619 lines

                  EXAMPLE OF CONVERSATIONS ON INTERNET
                  MESSAGE THREAD: POSITIVE UFO FRIENDS
              { Messages from the Lightworker Mailing  List
                       February 16th - 28th, 1995 }

======================================================================
The information contained in this file are the messages sent between
members of the Lightworker Mailing List related to Positive UFO
visitors.  My name is Joshua Shapiro, and I initiated this message
stream as I had been reading a great deal of information posted on
Internet who spoke about Aliens that did not have humanity's highest
interest at heart and that the major Governments of the Earth were
aware of these extraterrestrials and in some cases had made some type
of agreement with them.  So I wanted to hear other perspectives from
other people involved with the ET question and put a message out on
February 16th, 1995 to this mailing list.  I was surprised to see that
conversation went on for almost two weeks and I thought that it might
be nice to pull all the messages together to review the interesting
and varied perspectives that were shared by the members of this
mailing list.

First, I would like to publicly acknowledge Rene Mueller, who started
this mailing list and all those individuals (Lightworkers) who
participated in the conversations via the messages.  Below is some
information about the Lightworker mailing List and Spirit-WWW, a World
Wide Web Service about Spiritual Consciousness that are supported by
this extraordinary young and dedicated gentlemen living in
Switzerland, Rene (also note you will see some very interesting
insights shared by chair person of the list!!

===================================================================

LIGHTWORK-L Mailing List

The mailing-list is dedicated to Lightwork:

                   "The Way To Share And Express
                    The Peace, Light And Love,
                       The Essence Of Life."

         Following topics are touched and discussed:
              Self-Awareness
              Starseeds, Walk-in's
              Individual- & Mass-Ascension
              ET's, Alien-Cultures and Humankind
              Multi-Dimensional Realities/Selfs
              etc.

      The LIGHTWORK-L might be a forum for people who like to
      talk, share and be informed beside current available medias.


      The LIGHTWORK-L is not related to any 'religion', but is open
      to talk about them in relation to the topics.


If you like to subscribe, just mail to [e-mail]

      subscribe lightwork-l

      in content of mail (not subject).

      For your posts to LIGHTWORK-L mail to:

                      [e-mail]

      Lot of base-knowledge and related information you may pick up
      from Spirit-WWW

      USA: http://www.protree.com/Spirit.html
      Australia: http://zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au/Spirit.html
      Europe: (up soon)

      Light & Peace To You!

         "We Are Not Human-Beings, Having A Spiritual-Experience,
         But We Are Spiritual-Beings, Having A Human-Experience!"

         Rene;  ([e-mail])

======================================================================

>
>             ******************************************
>                             SPIRIT-WWW
>                       Spiritual Consciousness
>                          On World Wide Web
>             ******************************************
>
>           New Site:  http://zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au/Spirit.html
>
>   If you have already referenced subsections or local texts of
>   Spirit-WWW, you may replace   err.ethz.ch/~kiwi with
>   zeta.cs.adfa.oz.au
>
>   If you don't know Spirit-WWW yet, check following subjects, enjoy!
>
>               Channelings           Out Of Body Experiences
>               Lightwork             Yoga Paths
>               Healing Methods       Veda & Dharma
>               UFO Phenomena         Theosophy
>               Light Technology      Astrology
>
>         + CHANNELINGS (div. Authors)
>             Lot of Channelings related to the Coming Changes,
>             Alien-Cultures and thoughts on Higher Realms.
>         + LIGHTWORK (div. Authors)
>             Lightworkers, Starseeds, Walk-Ins and ET's -
>             Their Activities
>         + HEALING METHODS (div. Authors)
>             Some Text's and Illustrations on Healing
>             (Chakras, Foot Reflex Zones, etc)
>         + UFO PHENOMENA (div. Authors)
>             Some Text's and Links for UFO Phenomena,
>             also References to Ancient Cultures.
>         + LIGHT TECHNOLOGY (div. Authors)
>             Primary/Free Energy, Psychotronics,
>             Space and Time Technology etc.
>         + OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES (div. Authors)
>             OBE, Lucid-Dreaming, Meditation etc.
>         + YOGA PATHS (div. Authors)
>             Different Yoga-Paths classified and
>             their explanations.
>         + VEDA & DHARMA (div. Authors)
>             Overview of Vedic-Culture and relation to
>             other Cultures.
>         + THEOSOPHY(div. Authors)
>             Still only few links there, will
>             develop more soon.
>         + ASTROLOGY (div. Authors)
>             Western and Vedic Astrology
>         + JOURNALS & ZINES
>             Printed and Electronic Journals on
>             Spirituality and Consciousness
>         + NETWORKS, SITES & MAILING-LISTS
>             Other related Networks and Sites
>
>      ,
>   Rene ([e-mail])
>

Note: In the message, the reference to RKMCorner, is an area on this
Web Site that Rene keeps for himself to share his own personal
spiritual insights with other people who visit Spirit-WWW.

======================================================================

                 * * *  MESSAGES SHOWN IN DATE ORDER   * * *

Message Conventions: ==> When a person is answering another person's
message, their information will either be proceeded by nothing or one
right angle bracket (>), the person's who message they are responding
too, this message will either be preceded by one (>) or two (>>) angle
brackets, so you can understand the flow of the various messages.

Please Note:  Joshua (or Joshua Shapiro) is my spiritual name.  My
account is listed under Richard L. Shapiro, my birth name ... thanks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:23:55 -0600
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Hello,

My name is Joshua Shapiro, just joining this mailing list thanks to a
few e-mails with Rene (who is doing a great job)!!!

Wanted to throw out a question on this list and see what type of
reaction comes back?

I have been gathering UFO information via Internet and most of the
focus is on the so-called controlling races (Greys - Orion, etc ...)
which I believe for the most part is true.

However, when I start to read information from more loving and non-
intervening races (Pleiadians, Andromadeans, etc ) there are so many
scenarios, it is incredible.  One thing I do know is that humanity
will need to cooperate and work together to survive the coming
transformation and according to this guide (my future me perhaps?) a
Golden Age will result. But with all the interference apparently going
on, who is really helping us? I hear about landings (via Sheldon
Nidle) and this and that ... but it seems to me that the receiving of
messages from spirit or Space Brothers there is a great deal of
interference.  My only vision is for each of us to visualize
the most loving energy surrounding the planet, all living creatures
(above, on the surface and below) and to those in charge.  Why did the
Greys ask that the Gov't not reveal their presence, seems to me, if we
link into our inner part, the soul in unity, the power of this energy
is beyond any technology used to control.

Well enough said, for a first post ... just some thoughts going in my
noggin ... if you have an insight, hope to hear it (or write
personally if you want)

Peace & Light always ... just another lightworker trying to figure it
all out  ...............   R. Joshua

P.S. -- my wife and I are in Brad Steiger's new book, "Angels of
Love", talks about how we met in Brasil ... be interested to hear what
you think if you have a chance to see it .... (not a commercial ...
just a thought :-) )

======================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:25:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?

In message Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:23:55 -0600,
  "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>  writes:

Hi Joshua,

> I have been gathering UFO information via Internet and most of the
> focus is on the so-called controlling races (Greys - Orion, etc ...)
>which I believe for the most part is true.

Agreed (though I don't know much about the Orion's, and what they are
doing here).

> However, when I start to read information from more loving and non-
> intervening races (Pleiadians, Andromadeans, etc ) there are so many
> scenarios, it is incredible.  One thing I do know is that humanity
> will need to cooperate and work together to survive the coming
> transformation and according to this guide (my future me perhaps?) a
> Golden Age will result.  But with all the interference apparently
> going on, who is really helping us?  I hear about landings (via
> Sheldon Nidle) and this and that ... but it seems to me that the>
> receiving of messages from spirit or
> Space Brothers there is a great deal of interference.  My only
> vision is for each of us to visualize the most loving energy
> surrounding the planet, all living creatures (above, on the surface
> and below) and to those in charge.  Why did the Greys ask that the
> Gov't not reveal their presence, seems to me, if we link into our
> inner part, the soul in unity, the power of this energy is beyond
> any technology used to control.

Things looks complicated to me too. But for what I know, those who
serve the Light must not interfere, unless we ask them to (directly,
by prayer or whatever). Those on the other side will probably gladly
help without being asked, but only in their own interest.

I too feel, that our inner Light is much stronger that any physical
technology, and that we have to focus upon this, more than anything
else.

Anyway, I'm not in doubt that the planet will ascend one way or the
other. What we can do is just helping it go smoother or faster, by our
spirit.

Light and Peace,
-Rich

======================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:25:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?

In message Thu, 16 Feb 1995 13:23:55 -0600,
  "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>  writes:

Hi again Joshua,

I have some things I am in the middle of translating into American, it
is from a Danish woman, who is channeling for the White
Brotherhood/Light Federation. There is a piece from an E.T. called
Archos - not the whole piece, but I hope to have it all finished soon.

And a piece from a long channeling from Jesus, and his future
prediction for the Earth. There may be some linguistic errors, but I
hope its understandable anyway.

Enjoy,
-Rich
----------------------------------------------------------------------

                     THE INTERPLANETARIC FEDERATION

[This text is dictated by a spiritual being who calls himself Archos.]

I belong to the wide circle of people, who have joined what we call
"The Interplanetary Federation". It is a co-operation, which includes
all planets in this universe with physical life on them. I am now
residing in the spiritual dimensions, but else I belong to a planet,
which is beyond the Earth in state of evolution.

All physical inhabitable planets exists in a hierachic pattern in
their relation to each other. Some has just developed physical life,
others are in a evolutionary state, far beyond that of The Earth. On
all planets which develops a possibility for physical life, there will
develop beings of biological origin in a certain evolutionary pattern,
which is much like the one on Earth. Seen in the long perspective, the
planets this way are much alike. But within the different eras, there
may be many special forms of life, which is unique for each certain
planet. Human beings, in the sense of unique beings, which develop a
strong potential of intelligence and possibilities of diviniation(?)
of soul and body, will develop on all these planets. We can be a
little different by structure and height etc., but on all planets the
human beings will develop through more coarse types, into more
delicate ones, as the divine energi more and more illuminates their
body and consciousness.

There are a countless number of possibilities for variation, and like
people in different areas of The Earth develops certain,
characteristic appearances and features, it is also possible to know
people from certain planets by their appearance.

The mineral, plant and animal realms on the certain planets will also
develop in different ways. On my planet for example, we have not had
as many reptiles as you have had, but in return we have had more
species of predators over a rather long period. My planet is a bit
beyond The Earth in terms of development, therefore The Interplanetary
Federation (IPF)has decided, that I, Archos, shall be among those who
actively contact the people of the Earth, to instruct about this
federation and the possibilities it offers.

The development of the Earth belongs to the most important missions
for IPF at the time. The Earth is in a serious condition, it is in
crisis, but we can see from the spiritual dimensions, that it is also
strong, and can stand a great deal. Like people helps other people who
are in crisis, this way planets helps other planets, in suchs periods
of crisis.

Any crisis has at the same time a possibility in it for a great
change, a transformation.

The first issue of IPF is to prevent more human caused destruction on
this planet. The two most common ways to destroy a planet is through
war and pollution. This way The Earth makes no exception to the common
pattern.

One of The Earths most vulnerable issues, as already known by many
people, is the forest areas. Some planets are not as vulnerable,
because they have many areas with different kinds of vegetation, which
serves the same functions as the forests. But on Earth you are very
dependent upon the forest areas, and one of the most common reasons
for the decay of civilizations has been the destruction of the
forests.

Therefore, we from The Interplanetary Federation will call upon
everyone, who reads this, to one way or the other to contribute to the
preservation of all kinds of forest areas, not just the rainforests.
Contribute to create a new respect and deference for the trees, and
for their indispensable function within the ecological cyklus. In your
own life, and, if possible, in a larger scale.

The two greatest threats against the Earth however, comes from all the
negative images of thought,which is connected to concrete acts of
violence or war, and to pollution. These negative thoughts penetrates
the mental aura of The Earth, and has a very strong influence upon it.
This area has different colours, but negative influences shows as
foggy and very dark, concentrated areas surrounding the planet.  From
TIF we, as a counteraction, send different very large groups of
Angels, to surround The Earth, in different formations, for example as
a great spiral which reaches from pole to pole. You can support this
operation by meditating upon our formations of Angels surrounding the
Earth.

You can also help to neutralize these negative clouds surrounding The
Earth simply by asking God to heal and neutralize them. In some areas
these negative influences are so strong, that they act as curses. When
a sufficiently large amount of people are thinking in terms which is
solely guided by hate, revenge, and a desire for violence, the
collective pattern of thought will turn into a such curse. By asking
God to help The Earth to purify itself from this, you can, as a single
person, assist in making the way for a real purification.

The pollution issue is also one of our projects on Earth. It includes
a lot of different kinds, but the most important are the chemical
forms, which influences life within a long range of time. But all
areas, where humans in ignorance and greed make a mess of and soils
nature, so it eventually dies, are threatened areas in the whole of
the Earths aura.

Each time you think with a loving, respectful, and open mind of one of
the creatures in nature, whatever it is a beautiful flower you meet, a
lovely tree, or a beautiful stream, you are helping with neutralizing
all kinds of soiling of nature. In each action you take to show, that
you try to live in a way that in all respects is in balance with the
laws of nature, you will be with us in this big cleansing and cleaning
project.

Like in any other process of development, it is the human
consciousness which is the motive power. We have a kind of pollution
army here, which can help in areas, which are really seriously
polluted, but this help must be coordinated with a similar level of
understanding in the human consciousness.

Even though humans beings in many areas are unconscious and
thoughtless, you can however count on some help from us. We have
several possibilities for reducing the pollution level, e.g we can
induce life into dead areas, physically and mentally healing, and we
can also by channeling through single persons provide for a constant
raising of the generel level of consciousness.

We are telling you this, to help you not lose your courage, even
though many areas are in a serious condition. Help is available, both
physically and spiritually.

When the aura of the Earth is going through its final transformation,
we will be very active also with the neutralization of pollution and
with inducing life into dead areas.

Know this in your heart and console yourself, that is why I send you
these words.

There are areas on the Earth which needs special attention, and you
can help us by praying for the folowing areas:

The Soviet-union (or that area, which previosly was called the Soviet-
                  union)
Eastern Europe
USA
The Arabian countries and Israel
South America
Africa
Tibet

When you pray for these areas and countries, you can imagine a shining
golden-white cloud of love being sent from the Divine areas, in
through the aura of the Earth and down to the actual area, surrounding
every single living living being with its light, and letting the New
Age' clarity and love for the planet penetrate everything.

The Interplanetary Federation is a union of about *7 million planets*.
This large number will ensure you, that the help needed is available.
But I will repeat: the condition for receiving this help is a leap in
the consciousness of the inhabitants of your planet, as a whole. We
cannot help in a rate faster than the progress of this collective
consciousness of yours. Therefore my very first advice to you is to
raise your level of consciousness and help others to do the same; to
work with your attitudes and worths in relation to the cosmic view and
the conception of the Earth as a living organism.

As you can see, we are a very big organization. We have a fully
developed contact net to many people on Earth, and we are continually
working on increasing the channeling of our knowledge. But I would
like to point out, that we are in contact not only with human beings.
Also the highest developed of the animals are a part of this contact
net, like most of the dolphins and a lot of whales and other species.

Dolphins and whales with their highly developed sensory and sonar
system are the perfect receivers of signals from other planets, their
inhabitants, and their spaceships, as well as they also can use these
senses to receive impulses from the spiritual world.

With their strong and well balanced chacra system they are
indispensable in the seas on the planet. Even though a number of
dolphins will be called back to God in the changes that is to come, a
sufficient amount of them will survive to the benefit of the future on
this earth.

Apart from their superior receiving-abilities you could call them the
Gems of the sea. Through their chacra system they radiate light and
energy into the water, this way ensuring the waters penetratability of
and ability to receive the Divine energy.

Some dolphins are chosen to survive in close contact with humans in
dolphinaria, where they must be given the optimal conditions. The
water must be very deep, the basin must have as natural a shape as
possible, and finally the basin and the room in which it is must be as
large as possible, not to break down their sonar system.

There are however some single individuals among the dolphins, which
are so highly developed, that they can stand to live in even very
difficult surroundings, and they have the similarly important duty to
heal all the people, who come to see their show. While doing their
show, they at the same time open and heal the people around them.

We in IPF will strongly request for you to pray for all the dolphins
and whales on the planet Earth. It is not only out of ignorance, that
they are ruthlessly exploited. The dark forces know their importance
for the development of the Light on the planet. Therefore they demand
a special attention and protection, especially in the years to come.

Apart from praying for them, you can contact them telephatically. No
other creatures on Earth have so strong telepathic abilities as
especially certain groups of dolphins. If you are a bit sensitive, you
will therefore be able to feel a contact, whenever you are thinking of
dolphins.

Also the discarnated dolphins have inportant tasks, and some of them
also participate actively in our co-operation from their spiritual
position in their dolphin-area.

Because of the dolphins' abilities and conscious reception of
information from our co-operation, they form an important connecting
link between IPF and the humans on Earth. By contacting the dolphins
both physically in the dolphinaria and the sea, and spiritually by
telepathy, you therefore will strengthen the important colloboration
between the planets in this universe.

You will strengthen the grid of telepathic communication which like
shining patterns surrounds the Earth, and through which the creation
of a strong and inviolable unity concerning Gods plan for the Earth is
being attempted. That plan, which will lead the Earth through its very
important transformation up through the 90's and into the next
century.

With all these words I for the first want to tell you, who reads this,
that you are not alone - in no way, if you see the universe as a
whole. Not only do you all of the time receive increasingly more help
from more and more spiritual guides and angels. But also a the
physical level is the help increasing here from our interplanetary
colloboration, which consist of large numbers of human beings in both
physical and spiritual shape. I, Archos, represent for the time the
host from the spiritual dimensions of this universe. This host of
helping people, who from other planets have been able to SEE - with
their third eye - what is going on in the whole univere and thereyby
also on Earth. They are now out of incarnation, but continue their
help .............

 -------------------------------

"I see the forces of the dark dress themselves in new clothes and try
to create new setbacks for the Earth, and I see how the aura of the
Earth now seriously is wawing forth and back in polarizations and
battles.

I see the dark spots grow again, and how the aura of the Earth is
drawn totally wry, because of the imbalance created by the dark
forces. I see how the earth begin to move and tilt around, but then
the Light expands, man is now one with God and with me, and we stop
the motion towards the total destruction.

I appear so all can see me, and with my arrival the aura of the Earth
will be whole and beautiful again.

I see a new heaven vault within the different layers around the Earth,
where the lowest layers have disappeared, and where the Light now
penetrates everything in a sparkling twinkle of the Earth as
Paradise."

 Jesus

===================================================================

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 19:27:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jal Kae <[e-mail]>
To: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
cc: Light Workers List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?

Hi, Richard,

We at Starbuilders are living our lives on the assumption that the
Force of Evolution is at work on the Planet. There may be Greys,
Government conspiracies, and the like, but the combined force of all
of these "negatives" or "interference" is negligible when compared to
the Force of Evolution. It's like ants on a beach conspiring to stop a
tidal wave.

There are so many e.t., angelic, and other dimensional masters living
and working in human bodies today that it is hard to imagine that this
shift in Planetary Consciousness is not supported by the Force of
Evolution and The Planetary Consciousness herself. This is not even
including the billions of masters who are here, but not embodied.

Tere is a universal principle: Whatever you are fascinated with,  you
get more of. It is like, if you focus your valuable consciousness on
something, the universe says, "Oh, this is important to him... here's
more." We have done much work on ourselves, and we have narrowed our
focus of fascination/interest to only those things (more or less)
which support the co-creation of Heaven on Earth with other masters.
If there are Greys, so be it. If there are bad guys in the wings, so
be it. (In the Cosmic Version of this human drama, there are no Bad
Guys.) If the Force of Evolution wants to use us, totally cool! So be
it.

     In Love, Support, and Oneness
    KenDon

===================================================================

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:03:08 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

KenDon  (*** - Joshua responding to KenDon previous message above )

After seeing some of your other response on snet, I knew you would
offer some insights.

There are two thoughts here ... one is, if we chose to focus on only
the positive reality then we won't see anything else.

The second is, in order to help others, one must understand the
current situation and not walk blindly.

Seems at the moment, I am walking this second area ... and kind of
finding myself involved with all the possibilities.  The person who is
my future self speaks to me occassionally, I believe (at least my
interpretation if you will) and clearly the Earth is moving forward
into a Golden Age, of this there is no doubt.  Perhaps, since you have
stated you are in direct contact with Star Brothers and Sisters, you
see this also.  However, how can we help the people here, if our eyes
are only in the sky?  Many people are going to deal with quick changes
coming and without knowledge and connection to the inner self will be
confused.

What is interesting to me is that in 60-80's most messages printed
from the Space Brothers were positive and we kind of ignored the
people being abducted, but now this is increasing or the awareness is
increasing.

The bottom line is that to move through this in the most successful
way I feel, we must cooperate.  Which is to acknowledge our oneness.
Some souls may not be ready, but we can give them a chance. All are
our brothers and sisters.

In any case, this is a good place to share thoughts and ideas.
Perhaps what I am seeking is to find a balance, to reintegrate some
new information I have and find a way to help others find this
balance.

Thanks for your insights .... I can sense through your message your
Light shining bright .... Joshua

===================================================================

Date:  February 16th, 1995
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Answering Richard's Anderson message from February 17th)

Rich -- thanks for your feedback === I agree the key is to stay true
to our light, even if our human nature might like to know what is
about to happen === with so many prophecies and diff scenarios, maybe
it is only a good idea to know of them (without expectation so we
don't put energy behind any particular one) as I know that in the end
we will reach a Golden Age and the best we can do is share our love
and light, help others and visualize a wonderful future.

Joshua (for you is already Feb. 17th, you must be in Europe!!)


=====================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 05:59:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?

In message Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:54:19 -0600 (CST),
  "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>  writes:

Hi Joshua,

> Rich -- thanks for your feedback === I agree the key is to stay true
> to our light, even if our human nature might like to know what is
> about to happen  === with so many prophecies and diff scenarios,
> maybe it is only a good idea to know of them (without expectation so
> we don't put energy behind any particular one) as I know that in the
> end we will reach a Golden Age and the best we can do is share our
> love and light, help others and visualize a wonderful future.

I have known of the channeling I sent you for several years, and my
impression was therefore, that all E.T.'s were friendly. So I had to
rearrange my picture, when I connected to Internet a few months ago,
and learned about Greys and conspiracy, and a lot of other horrible
things going on. So I have studied this a lot myself, to find out what
was really going on, and understand it. Anyway, I find it hard to find
out what is true or not, so I don't take it too seriously. I think the
best one can do is to live in the moment, and follow ones spirit. And
most of all, be positive.

Peace and Light,
-Rich

=====================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 07:19:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Responding to Richard Anderson's Message listed just before )

The message I received in 1991 about the Greys was that humanity in
general will not make a change unless they find themselves in a
challenging situation.  Also I remember Stan Friedman once said at a
UFO panel in California, that if aliens were watching how humanity
conducts itself, with all the wars and killing of each other that we
have done and still do (to a lesser extent), than why would we worry
if they take a few people for experiments since we have such low
respect for human life.

The law of attraction stated by the ancient philosopher Hermes states
that like attracts like ... so on our world we have both positive and
so-called negative (energy of confusion I prefer) here.  Thus we are
drawing both types of aliens.  The positive seem to communicate more
via telepathy (channeling) so as not to interfer and the negative
(confused or selfish) are doing things on a more physical manner.  In
the end Truth and Love will win out.

Richard, are you in touch with New Age organziations or networkers in
Denmark.  If you could suggest or send some contacts, would appreciate
it.

Please go to Rene's Web Page (Spirituality and Consciousness), under
channelling and prophecy, there is an article called the Inca Prophecy
which is quite interesting.

Good to see you are actively pursuing these subjects.  Perhaps as more
info about the Grey and Orion activities becomes more public (just
read that such information was shared at the UFO Congress in Las Vegas
this december) it will bring people together who normally wouldn't
work together to bring humanity to a higher level!!!  All is in
perfection they say .... Joshua

===================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 19:00:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?

(*** - Richard Anderson's answer to Joshua's message above  )

> The message I received in 1991 about the Greys was that humanity in
> general will not make a change unless they find themselves in a
........

Things can be seen from many angles. If someone gets abducted, the
first reaction often is: That's awful, what are these Greys for guys,
who do they think they are? And you may get angry and want to kill
these Greys, or you may see it from a more loving point of view, and
focus on the victims instead, feeling compassion for them and wanting
to help, and seeing the Greys as some kind of children who don't know
what they are doing.

You may also see it from the point of view, that whatever we are
confronted with, there is a reason for it, in the name of evolution.
That whatever happens to us are for the best, no matter what it is.
Sometimes we find it hard to understand this, we feel we are "victims"
of the surroundings, and that injustice is being done to us. But
whatever happens to us of negative things, it is something we attract
ourselves, in order to show us something about ourselves, that needs
to be corrected. Until we begin to deal with these things, we will
constantly be confronted with them. It's just feedback from evolution,
to guide us into a positive direction. I try to see it from a non-
emotional point of view - it is all just a big evolutionary process -
cool - nothing personal, it just happens. It is often when we begin to
get emotional about it, we lose our insight (and then we get
corrected, till we open our eyes again).

> Please go to Rene's Web Page (Spirituality and Consciousness),
> undering challenging and prophecy, there is an article called the
> Inca Prophecy which is quite interesting.

Thanks, I will look at it (there are a lot of things I would like to
look at there, and in other places, but all this mail!!!). Think I'll
need some alternative personalities to get time for it all. :)

> Good to see you are actively pursuing these subjects.  Perhaps as
> more info about the Grey and Orion activities becomes more public
> (just read that such information was shared at the UFO Congress in
> Las Vegas this december) it will bring people together who normally
> wouldn't work together to bring humanity to a higher level!!!

> All is in perfection they say .... Joshua

At least I'm tryin to understand it all. I don't think the Greys or
whoever it might be are especially important. There is just a lot of
focus on them, probably because of fear. Very few talk about (or
perhaps even know about) the Asthar Command, or other positive E.T.'s.
I think it is better to try to understand what's behind the things
that's going on, what we can learn from it. Understand the whole
process, instead of focusing on certain things, getting lost in
details. I feel this is a much more positive way to see it all.

Light and Peace - Rich

===================================================================

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:03:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Jal Kae <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** KenDon Response to Joshua's Message on Feb. 16th, 1995)

Hi, Rich. Thanks for the insights.

> There are two thoughts here ... one is, if we chose to focus on only
> the positive reality then we won't see anything else

I believe it's impossible to avoid what can called negativity and
illusion while in human form. Sometimes it's plain-ol' in your face.
The point I was implying was that our fascinations are like roads -
each one takes us on a different safari. Journeys into the Paranoid
Jungle will get you scared.

Fascination with the Light will bring you more insights in that area.
Lastly, in fifth-dimensional reality, "positive" reality (although it
is not viewed or experienced in dualistic terms) is the only thing we
can see. This is good; I'm sure everyone who has a memory of it would
highly recommend it.

> The second is, in order to help others, one must understand the
> current situation and not walk blindly.

I have reservations about "helping others," although I offer whatever
I can from a certain perspective. Commonly, to "help others" implies
that they are somehow helpless, ignorant, unknowing, a victim, or
lacking in some way. I know that they are not. I know that everything
they need is available to them from their spirit. I realize also that
the universe my use me as an instrument to deliver whatever that being
needs in that moment. In this sense, I am not helping them, but simply
"delivering pizzas" (or whatever is called for) for the universe. This
way, both parties can remain in their integrity as Divine beings.

> Seems at the moment, I am walking this second area ... and kind of
> finding myself involved with all the possibilities.  The person who
> is my future self speaks to me occassionally, I believe (at least my
> interpretation if you will) and clearly the Earth is moving forward
> into a Golden Age, of this there is no doubt.  Perhaps, since you
> have stated you are in direct  contact with Star Brothers and
> Sisters, you see this also. However, how  can we help the people
> here, if our eyes are only in the sky?  Many people  are going to
> deal with quick changes coming and without knowledge and connection
> to the inner self will be confused.

I am not absolutely sure the Earth will ascend; I am, however,
confident enough to "bet my life on it." I am spending my life in
service to this probable Event, but there are no guarantees.

Other-dimensional beings work through me; I am a "Star Brother,"
although I do not use that term. You very well may be one, as well.
Discovering your Cosmic Identity is a life-long process - something
worthy of one's fascination.

My eyes are currently focused on my moment-to-moment experience. The
information I share with others is based on these observations.
Although I like to chat about the Ascension, I also talk about how
humanity has this "being right" thing, their suffering, and other
things. I do not get that from "looking at the sky," but by examining
my experience while in human form. Whether my insights "help" others
is not my responsibility; I can only do what I can do.

> The bottom line is that to move through this in the most successful
> way I feel, we must cooperate.  Which is to acknowledge our oneness.
> Some souls may not be ready, but we can give them a chance.  All are
> our brothers and sisters.

I appreciate your sincerity and support what you are saying.

> In any case, this is a good place to share thoughts and ideas.
> Perhaps what I am seeking is to find a balance, to reintegrate some
> new information I have and find a way to help others find this
> balance.

    I agree; it's a great vehicle for this.  Go for it!
>
> Thanks for your insights .... I can sense through your message your
> Light shining bright .... Joshua
>
     Thanks for your support.
    In Love, Support, and Oneness
    KenDon

=====================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 07:12:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Joshua's Response to KenDon's Message Before )

KenDon,

What is the most incredible experience on the journey of life is to
meet other people who's perception of reality is so different from
ours and that little voice saids, there is something for us, some bit
of truth in what they are saying.  IN this life I feel I have gone
through many deaths and rebirths .... and I trust that since all is in
perfection, that what I am doing at the moment is where I am to be for
that NOW.

> Fascination with the Light will bring you more insights in that
> area. Lastly, in fifth-dimensional reality, "positive" reality
> (although it is not viewed or experienced in dualistic terms) is the
> only thing we can see. This is good; I'm sure everyone who has > a
> memory of it would highly recommend it.

IN this time, it appears that we can not see the whole picture, as one
person in a human body to another, but we each have pieces and this
forum here on Internet is our chance to share our pieces.

> I have reservations about "helping others," although I offer
> whatever I can from a certain perspective. Commonly, to "help
> others" implies that they are somehow helpless, ignorant, unknowing,
> a victim, or lacking in some way. I know that they are not. I know
> that everything they need is available to them from their spirit. I
> realize also that the universe my use me as an instrument to deliver
> whatever that being needs in that moment. In this sense, I am not
> helping them, but simply "delivering pizzas" (or whatever is called
> for) for the universe. This way, both parties can remain in their
> integrity as Divine beings.

About helping others, you are correct, we can't do it for them just as
no one can do it for us.  but I find if I tune into another person and
open myself to the universe flowing through me, than perhaps I can
plant a seed or speak in words they understand, to provide a re-
awakening of who they are .... if all are part of me, then I must try
my best to offer (if they accept) something without expect of return
or if they will agree.  Thus, the highest help we can offer is to be
an example of the Truth which radiates inside of us!!!  I think we are
a visual society and if someone sees you are happy and your life is
fullfilling, some people may ask why, what are you doing?

> I am not absolutely sure the Earth will ascend; I am, however,
> confident enough to "bet my life on it." I am spending my life in
> service to this probable Event, but there are no guarantees.

> Other-dimensional beings work through me; I am a "Star Brother,"
> although I do not use that term. You very well may be one, as well.
> Discovering your Cosmic Identity is a life-long process - something
> worthy of one's fascination.

I am absolute sure that this dimension of the earth or reality will
move into a Golden Age.  This is why the Truth is coming out and time
is moving so fast. For me, I know I have many invisible friends who
help me and I have felt a kinship to the Wanderers that G.H.
Williamson wrote about.

So the near future holds many surprises and new doors are going to
open. It seems to me it is imperative to have connection with one's
inner self, higher self, or soul to be able to understand what is
happening and also to receive inner verification of what is the best
place to be and things to be doing.

Peace & Light always ... just another brother on the path ... Joshua
(Joshua is the spiritual name I use for the New Age work)

===================================================================

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:13:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, Richard L. Shapiro wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My name is Joshua Shapiro, just joining this mailing list thanks to
> a few e-mails with Rene (who is doing a great job)!!!
>
> Wanted to throw out a question on this list ....
>
> I have been gathering UFO information via Internet and most of the
> focus is on the so-called controlling races (Greys - Orion, etc ...)
> which I believe for the most part is true.
>
Lori here:  Welcome to the list!

Just wanted to add my few bits here... Yeah, I hear about them too,
some are "good" some are "bad" but you can't stereotype a particular
race as totally one way or the other, you know?  Just like, you can't
say, all Earth humans are "good" or "bad"--see, I hate to use this
good/bad analogy--it's too limiting. And life, the universe, and
everything (what was the ultimate answer?  I think it was 42...but
what was the question?  Ha ha ha!--I was referencing the "Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams here for anyone who didn't get
the joke.) it's like, so unlimited, even though we don't see  it all
from our perspective...You know, in actuality, that guy Douglas Adams
had some pretty interesting ideas that I have come to notice may be
some of the way things work...if you kind of read between the lines
and jokes, you know? Hmmmm...?...

> However, when I start to read information from more loving and non-
> intervening races (Pleiadians, Andromadeans, etc ) there are so many
> scenarios, it is incredible.

One thing I would say is, everyone who is here is participating in
some fashion--because THEY'RE HERE.  Everyone who is here is
intervening in some way.  No matter how much they claim to just be
here to watch...or whatever. Incredible, yes I'd agree.

> One thing I do know is that humanity will need to cooperate and work
> together to survive the coming transformation and according to this
> guide (my future me perhaps?) a Golden Age will result.  But with
> all the interference apparently going on, > who is really helping
> us?  I hear about landings (via Sheldon Nidle as listed in his book
> "You Are Becoming a Galactic Human")

Well, the ones I know of, are here to help us HELP OURSELVES... not to
do it for us.

> and this and that ... but it seems to me that the receiving of
> messages from spirit or Space Brothers there is a great deal of
> interference.  My only vision is for each of us to visualize the
> most loving energy surrounding the planet, all living creatures
> (above, on the surface and below) and to those in charge.

I'll join you there!  :)

> Why did the Greys ask that the Gov't not reveal their presence,
> seems to me, if we link into our inner part, the soul in unity, the
> power of this energy is beyond any technology used to control.

Yes...by letting the Light into your soul, manifesting it in your
life, makes you go beyond anyone else's control...Acting from Love
instead of fear, you realize your true Self, you have Integrity,
Peace, and Joy...the sharing of this to others is the greatest gift we
can give to another person (accepting them as another aspect of the
One that we all are...us and all of Creation.)

Thanks for your sharing, until we meet again... Love and Light ....
Lori

> P.S. -- my wife and I are in Brad Steiger's new book, "Angels of
> Love", talks about how we met in Brasil ... be interested to hear
> what you think if you have a chance to see it .... (not a commercial
> ... just a thought :-) )

Hmm, interesting, I'll have to check that one out.  Brad Steiger's
"the  Star People" was one of the first metaphysical books I ever
read. Gave me some of the first glimmerings of why I was here, after I
had forgotten. :)

===================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 07:28:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Joshua answering Lori's previous message )

Well after speaking with several people here Lori, I seem to be a bit
more clear today.  Did a meditation with a special smoky quartz
crystal last night from Brasil, which has a very special energy.!!!

On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, Lori E. Tostado wrote:

> Just wanted to add my few bits here... Yeah, I hear about them too,
> some are "good" some are "bad" but you can't stereotype a particular
> race as totally one way or the other, you know?  Just like, you
> can't say, all Earth humans are "good" or "bad"--see, I hate to use
> this good/bad analogy--it's too limiting.....

One thing I have been doing is expanding my energy to experience these
Grey aliens, to see what I feel and what I got is that some of them
are interested in us because we are beginning to activate our Light
and that through our emotions, we are lead to experience joy and love
via the heart chakra.  So I send a mental message to them, wouldn't it
be great if our two civilizations walked together as equals?

> One thing I would say is, everyone who is here is participating in
> some fashion-- because THEY'RE HERE.  Everyone who is here is
> intervening in some way.  No matter how much they claim to just be
> here to watch...or whatever. Incredible, yes I'd agree.

This idea of course falls along the line that the Earth is evoling and
that every being or energy here is participating in some way.  Good
show!!

> Yes...by letting the Light into your soul, manifesting it in your
> life, makes you go beyond anyone else's control...Acting from Love
> instead of fear, you realize your true Self, you have Integrity,
> Peace, and Joy...the sharing of this to others is the greatest gift
> we can give to another person (accepting them as another aspect of
> the One that we all are...us and all of Creation.)

> Thanks for your sharing, until we meet again...Love and Light ...
> Lori

Maybe through the group meeting here, we could try an experiment for
each of us each morning, to visualize only for 2 or 3 minutes when we
get up in the morning our world surround by love, touching all beings
and seeing a vision of humanity walking together.  I feel since the
beginning of this year it is important to do this every day.

> > P.S. -- my wife and I are in Brad Steiger's new book, "Angels of
> > Love", talks about how we met in Brasil ...

> Hmm, interesting, I'll have to check that one out.  Brad Steiger's
> "the Star People" was one of the first metaphysical books I ever
> read....

Yes, I know Brad and his wife and I always recommend Star People.  I
usually give some insights to Star People as I travel.  I see a Star
Person by the Light coming from their eyes and then I start to get a
feeling or images in my mind of where they come from.  Many children
being born now I think are Star Children, if nothing else bring their
light to help Mother Earth!!!

To members of this list, sorry to answer anyone's message but I am a
writer and I can do it fast, also being an Aries and if I don't do it
now , when I am inspired .... it won't happen .... sorry to get
carried away but with all the research I've been doing, I have too
much information inside of me now ..... ou vay!!!

===================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:24:40 -0600
Reply-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Sender: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?
X-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
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>In message Fri, 17 Feb 1995 07:19:19 -0600 (CST),
>  "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>  writes:
>
>> The message I received in 1991 about the Greys was that humanity in
>> general will not make a change unless they find themselves in a
>> challenging situation.  Also I remember Stan Friedman once said at
>> a UFO panel in California, that if aliens were watching how
>> humanity conducts itself, with all the wars and killing of each
>> other that we have done and still do (to a lesser extent), than why
>> would we worry if they take a few people for experiments since we
>> have such low respect for human life.
>>
>> The law of attraction stated by the ancient philosopher Hermes
>> states that like attracts like ... so on our world we have both
>> positive and so-called negative (energy of confusion I prefer)
>> here.  Thus we are drawing both types of aliens.  The positive seem
>> to communicate more via telepathy (channeling) so as not to
>> interfer and the negative (confused or selfish) are doing things on
>> a more physical manner.  In the end Truth and Love will win out.
>
>Things can be seen from many angles. If someone gets abducted, the
>first reaction often is: That's awful, what are these Greys for guys,
>who do they think they are? And you may get angry and want to kill


>these Greys, or you may see it from a more loving point of view, and
>focus on the victims instead, feeling compassion for them and wanting
>to help, and seeing the Greys as some kind of children who don't know
>what they are doing.
>
>You may also see it from the point of view, that whatever we are
>confronted with, there is a reason for it, in the name of evolution.
>That whatever happens to us are for the best, no matter what it is.
>Sometimes we find it hard to understand this, we feel we are
>"victims" of the surroundings, and that injustice is being done to
>us. But whatever happens to us of negative things, it is something we
>attract ourselves, in order to show us something about ourselves,
>that needs to be corrected. Until we begin to deal with these things,
>we will constantly be confronted with them. It's just feedback from
>evolution, to guide us into a positive direction. I try to see it
>from a non-emotional point of view - it is all just a big
>evolutionary process - cool - nothing personal, it just happens. It
>is often when we begin to get emotional about it, we lose our insight
>(and then we get corrected, till we open our eyes again).
>
I agree (and probably as I was readin this material I became somewhat
lost for a moment) but I also think we have to be able to view many
realities and possibilities, not that we give our power away to such
information or situations, but have knowledge of them so we can be
ready to deal with them in the most positive and loving manner.  It is
not right for us to judge other beings or their motivation but we can
try to understand their position and see if a way of peaceful
negotiation can be reached.

>
>>
>> Good to see you are actively pursuing these subjects.  Perhaps as
>> more info about the Grey and Orion activities becomes more public
>> (just read that such information was shared at the UFO Congress in
>> Las Vegas this december) it will bring people together who normally
>> wouldn't work together to bring humanity to a higher level!!!  All
>> is in perfection they say .... Joshua
>
>At least I'm tryin to understand it all. I don't think the Greys or
>whoever it might be are especially important. There is just a lot of
>focus on them, probably because of fear. Very few talk about (or
>perhaps even know about) the Asthar Command, or other positive
>E.T.'s. I think it is better to try to understand what's behind the
>things that's going on, what we can learn from it. Understand the
>whole process, instead of focusing on certain things, getting lost in
>details. I feel this is a much more positive way to see it all.
>

I have studied the messages from Ashtar and positive ETs and feel we
must also use discernment.  Many prophecies have been given via these
sources that have not come to pass and also people begin to trust in
the messages too much without going within themselves to verify.  It
seems to me the key is the connect to our spiritual self, which when
we do we find is a very powerful being linked to all knowledge and
wisdom.  How much of this knowledge we can manifest probably depends
on how open and integrated we are with the spiritual energies.  But I
think it is a safe bet to say, that we are having contact with other
beings and more and more of who they are is beginnning to come out.

All I know is when I hear information that is true for me, my heart
sings, I sense a feeling of completeness (and also realize that this
new {old} truth may change in the next instance).

We truely live in a remarkable time with the opportunity for
incredible growth!!!

Peace & Light always ... Joshua

======================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
X-NUPop-Charset: Norwegian/Danish
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 02:58:18 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The Positive UFO friends?
Content-Length: 1756
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X-UIDL: 793112169.007

In message Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:24:40 -0600,
  [e-mail] (Richard L. Shapiro)  writes:
>
> I have studied the messages from Ashtar and positive ETs and feel we
> must also use discernment.  Many prophecies have been given via
>these sources that have not come to pass and also people begin to
>trust in the messages too much without going within themselves to
>verify.  It seems to me the key is the connect to our spiritual
> self, which when we do we find is a very powerful being linked to
>all knowledge and wisdom.  How much of this knowledge we can manifest
>probably depends on how open and integrated we are with the spiritual
>energies.  But I think it is a safe bet to say, that we are having
>contact with other beings and more and more of who they are is
>beginnning to come out.

I think channelings are often some kind of therapeutic information,
not necessarily true, but meant to start some processes in those who
read them. It is said that we cannot receive any information that we
do not already have within ourself, or which do not relate to ourself
in some way. So if we have some illusions about certain things, it may
just as well be those we hear about in the channelings. Perhaps this
direct confrontation with our own illusions may reveal some things to
us. Some of the Asthar channelings seems a bit sinister to me, but
perhaps they have a purpose.

>
> All I know is when I hear information that is true for me, my heart
> sings, I sense a feeling of completeness (and also realize that this
> new {old} truth may change in the next instance).

Yes, I know what you mean.

Peace,
-Rich

=====================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 11:58:09 +0100
Reply-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Sender: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
X-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Content-Length: 498
X-Status: A
X-UIDL: 793112169.013


 Joshua:
> All I know is when I hear information that is true for me, my heart
> sings, I sense a feeling of completeness (and also realize that this
> new {old} truth may change in the next instance).

During the last years reading lot of material, and more and more
followed the same "procedure", also if messages sound very "positive"
on the surface, or "negative" or whatever - the ringing, the resonance
within my reality is the point, which allows it to be the truth in me
....
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 06:52:20 -0600 (CST)
Reply-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Sender: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
X-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Content-Length: 4851
X-UIDL: 793115690.001

(*** - Joshua responding to Rene's message before)

Rene --

We live now in an incredible time ... our Mother Earth's vibration is
shifting, the frequency is moving faster and faster.  Since my early
days of awakening in 1980, I feel I have lived 10 lifetimes, being an
Aries person and just jumping in to all aspects of the manifestation
of the Aquarian Age.  In those early days, I saw a flood of positive
spiritual messages coming through ... and people feeling hope for our
future.

Now, older and wiser (perhaps :-) ) ... we have a mix of messages and
I am finding for myself that no message is positive or negative, it is
information to inform, to prepare us for tremendous change coming.
Some of the information coming out related to the UFOs now is hard to
shallow but I think the essence of this information can not be
overlooked.  Things are happening, and as I re-read UFO books for the
past, the picture of this transformation is coming out.  That is why
before I said in an earlier message it is important to share the
vibration of love with all beings living or staying on our world.  The
faster vibration is bringing out the truth.  Even, I am sure, many
people are finding that parts of themselves, which maybe we would not
like to see, the faster vibration is bringing this part of ourselves
out so we can work through it, become stronger, more whole.

Also I read a book called the Emerald Tablets, which supposed was
written by Thoth, who later became Hermes ... and it discussed the
White Guardians and the Dark Guardians.  That neither Guardian was
good or bad, each had a job to help in the evolvement of the souls who
chose the earth as their classroom to grow.  This idea has always
stayed with me.  We have challenges which help to bring out who we
are, Children of God, Eternal Souls.  And I feel as we evolve and
discover, it is important to share, without expectation that others
will agree, the fruits of our learning.  I feel we are in a time now
when growth is very fast and that we will all need all our abilities
(even some we do not know we have) to help Mother Earth and all life
on the Planet move into the Golden Age.  I clearly see the cleansing
(as the Hopis discuss in their prophecy) and the graduating will be
completed this cycle.

One thing I feel inspired to share at this time is a story I heard
from a man named Al Bielek.  He claims that he was one of the sailors
on the Etheridge which disappeared during their invisibility (the Navy
- US) experiment in 1943, also known as the Philadelphia Experiment
(there is a movie with this name that is quite close to the real story
he saids).  He said they received from the ETs the ability to travel
through time because they repeated this experiment on the same day and
month in 1983 in Montauk.  A UFO fell from the past into the future
with the whole they created.  That at Montauk they had a time tunnel.
Now maybe this story is kind of incredible but these types of things I
really feel are happening.

In any case, he told me at a party in Las Vegas that they traveled
into the future and between the years of 2011-2013, they could not
penetrate it to see what was there (also told me that there are
parrallel dimensions of the Earth and they knew of four of them with
Germany winning the war in one of the them (WWWII).  I believe that in
these years the Earth will move from 3rd - 5th dimensional energy and
that life will be in a suspended animation, and brought back, as the
bible discusses into a new heaven and new Earth.  Also I am seeing
many people talk about the Aquarian Age beginning in this time
interval.  And lastly it once occured to me that in 1987 (Harmonic
Convergence) when the Mayan calendar ended, they use 13/26/52 year
cycles, 26 years from 1987 is 2013.

So, we will see what is in store for us ... but the key to being in
balance will ultimately be trusting our inner guidance using our inner
awarenesses and hopefully the Inner Self will be manifesting itself
more visibly in our physical reality.  The Second Coming could be the
chain reaction (100th monkey effect) of that Christ or Inner
Consciousness fully manifesting soon!!!

Again just some thoughts to think about .... welcome to the Golden Age
at hand .... Joshua .... alias Illinois Shapiro


=====================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 13:03:47 -1000
Reply-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Sender: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
From: rachael davis-shea <[e-mail]>
Subject: POS/NEG Visitors? The Kryon Material
X-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Content-Length: 1750
X-Status:
X-UIDL: 793202521.018

Hello.

i am rachael posting from Hawaii.  i have read many postings about the
intriguing question of visiting entities: positive, negative, our own
projections, all of the above?

into my hands last fall fell a remarkable book called _KRYON: The End
Times_then i read the second one __Don't Think Like a Human!__

this channeled material takes what i would term the broad view.  lucid
commentary on the issue of entities of all types, here for all sorts
of purposes, some having nothing to do with us humans.  The Kryon is
here, according to these channelings, to effect the shift in the
earth's magnetic grid, scheduled to take place between now and 2011.
i believe the date 2013 . cropped up in another posting today.

The Kryon recommends reading many different channel sources, as each
has a part of the picture; in particular, the Pleiadians, the
Arcturians and Ashtar, and the Ascended Masters.  most of us are
already familiar with these sources.

this information is only a small part of the total material.  our
history as earth is treated, including Atlantis, and the identity of
lightworkers.

well, anyway, does anyone want to discuss this material?  below is the
address for anyone interested.  the second book is devoted to
answering questions mailed in.  would it not be fine to conduct Q&A on
the net,instead of waiting for a book to be published?

Kryon, __The End Times__, 1993 (i think)  & __Don't Think Like a
Human!__1994

                           The Kryon Writings
                           1155 Camino del Mar #422
                           Del Mar, CA 92014
                           [phone]

rachael               ------
                       /l /
                      /\l/\
                      ------

====================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:38:47 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

 Joshua:
> One thing I have been doing is expanding my energy to experience
> these Grey aliens, to see what I feel and what I got is that some of
> them are interested in us because we are beginning to activate our
> Light and that through our emotions, we are lead to experience joy
> and love via the heart chakra.  So I send a mental message to them,
> wouldn't it be great if our two civilizations walked together as
> equals?

You made the point ... we perceive each other as respecting beings,
and transcended the fear about each other. I wished more people could
look at the Zeta Interaction like this, instead sharing more fear and
stories which prevents us to understand ...
   ,
Rene

==================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:11:04 -0600
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Joshua responding to Rene's message about the Greys )

Rene,

Some people say they feel some affinity with the Grey aliens but still
there is the law of non-interference and permission and taking people
and abducting them to experiment and possibly save their race, doesn't
seem to be following the respect and love of all life.

I suspect, if you ever saw the tv series "V" which dealt with visitors
who were a lizard race, there were some of the aliens who didn't feel
they were treating humans properly.  From a karmic level, who can say
if the people being abducted didn't do something similar to people on
other worlds, and now are experiencing the other side of this
experience.

Again, it is difficult to discuss these situations because we will
view them from our own human perception and I am sure other beings
from other worlds will view things from their own perceptions.

In any case, all these scenarios seem to be helping to bring forth a
new reality to the earth, at least to those people living on the
surface.  I believe there are civilizations underground and on the
Inner Surface of the Earth too and perhaps these events will unite all
the beings throughout the planet.

Joshua

===================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 07:33:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Franks original message at the bottom of this message)

Hi Frank,

Folks, my spiritual name is Joshua, so I ask that you use this, ok?

I do not feel I am a walk-in.  I do believe there are walk ins and
Star People and Wanderers but we must remember, if we are in a
physical body, than whether we feel affinity to such, we still face
the same challenges as everyone else.

Generally walk ins or Star People, have trouble with the so called
high emotions and so-called negativity of the Earth.  Some of the
things which occur on the earth, are almost unthinkable to them.  So
they have their challenges too if they remember who they are.

Seems to me, many souls are drawn to the Earth right now for the
incredible challenges we are facing.

Rod Steiger is not the same as Brad, Frank.  Brad has written over a
100 books on many New Age and UFO subjects.  I just don't know how he
does this being a fellow writer and all.

BTW, the books I have done include: "Journeys of an Aquarian Age
Networker" (1981 -- if we setup a Web Page, I hope to include portions
of this), "UFOs,Space Brothers and the Aquarian Age" (1985) and
"Mysteries of the Crystal Skulls Revealed (1989 with S. Bowen & N.
Nocerino).  Am interested in anyone who information about crystal
skulls!!!

Thanks Frank and thanks for your welcome.  This group here reminds me
of the New Age Forum on Compuserve.

Peace & Light always (now tell me if I am writing too much) ....
Joshua

On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Frank Ramos wrote:

> Hi Richard,
> I have read a book by Rod Stieger. Are you one of the walk-ins? If
> so how did it happen to you? Glad you could join us. This list is
> generating light and love. Enjoy!
> Frank

===================================================================

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:39:31 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

<*** - Rene answering one of Joshua's posts)

> Again, it is difficult to discuss these situations because we will
> view them from our own human perception and I am sure other beings
> from other worlds will view things from their own perceptions.

We may expand our perception to a wholeness ... as we are spiritual-
beings, if so, we expand from a Human Perception to a Spiritual
Perception ...
   ,
Rene

===================================================================

Return-Path: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 00:01:28 -0800
Reply-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Sender: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
From: Flemming Funch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
X-To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>
Content-Length: 1412
X-UIDL: 793202521.054

At 10:11 AM 2/17/95 -0600, Richard L. Shapiro wrote:

>Some people say they feel some affinity with the Grey aliens but
>still there is the law of non-interference and permission and taking
people and abducting them to experiment and possibly save their race,
doesn't seem to be following the respect and love of all life.

The thing is that we all exist on multiple levels at the same time.
The Zeta's look at our whole self, not just our conscious, waking
self.

The one that doesn't want the abduction, and indeed the one who calls
it an "abduction" is a conscious part of the person that is denying
its other parts.

Zetas could not carry people away unless they already agreed to it.
Their conscious part might be kicking and screaming, but the whole
person basically agrees and has invited the interaction with the
Zetas.

In my own interactions I found that the whole thing got to look very
differently when I confronted my fears on the matter and dug up my own
agreements. Then an abduction turned into rather being a positive
spiritual booster for me.

- Flemming

**** Flemming Funch ******* http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/ ****
*******************************************************************
 Systems: Structures of interrelationships that influence behavior
 Synergy: The behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the parts
 Holonomics: The study, design and maintenance of whole systems

====================================================================

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 10:22:37 -0600
From: Richard Shapiro <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Joshua answering Flemming Funch post above)

Flemming,

In this time of transformation each of us has our own unique way at
looking at events.  I agree on one level all experiences help us grow
and that people choose such lessons before incarnating.  But I also
believe that the purpose of this transformation is that it is a lesson
to teach us all that we are all brothers and sisters and we do not
need to take things from each other.  I still feel that the Zetas are
learning things from us too and I feel as more acknowledgement will
come out about their presence that abductions will not need to
continue.  But we each have our lesson to learn and this experience
will probably help to empower some people past fear.  But what about
the others who can not find their strength to reach this channel?

Interesting times .... saw your Web Page and info ... great job.  Keep
up the good work ... Joshua alias R. Shapiro (Illinois Shapiro)

===================================================================

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 10:19:41 -0600
From: Richard Shapiro <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: POS/NEG Visitors? The Kryon Material
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

<*** Joshua Answering Rachael's post shown below>

>Hello.
>
> i am rachael posting from Hawaii.  i have read many postings about
> the intriguing question of visiting entities: positive, negative,
> our own projections, all of the above?
>
> into my hands last fall fell a remarkable book called _KRYON: The
> End Times_ then I read the second one __Don't Think Like a Human!__
>
> this channeled material takes what i would term the broad view.
> Lucid commentary on the issue of entities of all types, here for all
> sorts of purposes, some having nothing to do with us humans.  The
> Kryon is here, according to these channelings, to effect the shift
> in the earth's magnetic grid, scheduled to take place between now
> and 2011.  i believe the date 2013 . cropped up in another posting
> today.
>
> The Kryon recommends reading many different channel sources, as each
> has a part of the picture; in particular, the Pleiadians, the
> Arcturians and Ashtar, and the Ascended Masters.  most of us are
> already familiar with these sources.

> this information is only a small part of the total material.  our
> history as earth is treated, including Atlantis, and the identity of
> lightworkers.
>
> well, anyway, does anyone want to discuss this material?  below is
> the address for anyone interested.  the second book is devoted to
> answering questions mailed in.  would it not be fine to conduct Q&A
> on the net, instead of waiting for a book to be published?
>
>Kryon, __The End Times__, 1993 (i think)  & __Don't Think Like a
>Human!__1994
>                           The Kryon Writings
>                           1155 Camino del Mar #422
>                           Del Mar, CA 92014
>                           [phone]
>rachael               ------
>                       /l /
>                      /\l/\
>                      ------

Rachel === would it be possible to post some of the insights from the
_KRYON or give us a summary of what this book talks about.

Also has there been a number of UFO sightings in Hawaii (as they say
inquerying minds would like to know!!!)

Thanks ... Joshua

===================================================================

Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:01:38 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Gerardus responding to one of Joshua's Post )

Hi Joshua...

You arrived at Lightwork-l.  Welcome!  You are the Joshua, the author
right? Still have your book, yes!  Most revealing and a possible
answer to these Crystals might be in the book: You are becoming a
Galactic Human. What do you think/feel about the support of the
Firmaments in the past? Greetings and as always from a good old
friend...
                                                                .!,
        Light... Love... and Laughter...      *!* Gerardus     {-^o}
                                                                \~/
                                          Love at first byte!    `

                 ! All Realities are Virtual Realities !
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
         Every Human Being is a very special designed Instrument of
         its Higher Self.  We are what we are on purpose, and our work
         is to learn to grasp, that we and the Designer are one and
         the same Creative Force.  This Force is the only Force in the
         Universe and it expresses itself into different Dimensions,
         Entities and Functions so that it may enjoy its own
         spontaneous and infinite creativity.

           [e-mail]  or  [e-mail]

===================================================================

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:16:01 -0700
From: [e-mail]
To: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?

(*** - Answering Joshua's question on firmaments .... )

> Not sure what you mean by firmaments of the past (the skulls).
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Joshua...

Yes!  I know.  The book explains that two layers of ice-crystals or
just frozen water was put into orbit and formed  'ceilings'
(Firmaments) over the entire Earth at different heights.  The entire
Earth then becomes a Shopping Mall!  Controled climate and no
radiation.  This increases our lifespan many folds.  And 70 degree
temp. all over!  I could wear my shorts in the winter in Edmonton,
Canada.  Whoopie Deloo!

These 'ceilings' or Firmanents were held up there by means of crystals
in some way.  Most fascinating to read about for me and as soon as I
read it I thought about you!  And look, here you are on LightWork-L...
Great Show!

                                                                .!,
        Light... Love... and Laughter...      *!* Gerardus     {-^o}

===================================================================

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 16:34 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

>> The second is, in order to help others, one must understand the
>> current situation and not walk blindly.  (From Joshua)
>
> I have reservations about "helping others," although I offer
> whatever I can from a certain perspective. Commonly, to "help
> others" implies that they are somehow helpless, ignorant, unknowing,
> a victim, or lacking in some way. I know that they are not....
> (From KenDon)

I would like to say that is an EXCELLENT point KenDon.  Unless the
help is specifically requested, it will fall on deaf ears.  It is best
to sit, and allow those in need to come to you.  If you are indeed a
vehicle for assisting others, then that situation will make itself
*readily* available for you!

> I am not absolutely sure the Earth will ascend; I am, however,
> confident enough to "bet my life on it." I am spending my life in
> service to this probable Event, but there are no guarantees......

> My eyes are currently focused on my moment-to-moment experience. The
> information I share with others is based on these observations.
> Although I like to chat about the Ascension, I also talk about how
> humanity has this "being right" thing, their suffering, and other
> things....  (KenDon)

I agree, humanity needs to take a moment and look back inside, it has
more abilities at its disposal than it appears.  Humanity *CAN*
overcome the obstacles before it.  There are many groups waiting to
help you, in case of almost anything, but please, first check inside,
you might be suprised to find out you can very well take care of it
yourself.

Allexzander

=====================================================================

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 16:34 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

>My name is Joshua Shapiro, just joining this mailing list thanks to a
>few e-mails with Rene (who is doing a great job)!!!

Ditto.

>However, when I start to read information from more loving and
> non-intervening races (Pleiadians, Andromadeans, etc )

Might I add "so-called non-intervening races"?

>there are so many scenarios, it is incredible.  One thing I do know
>is that humanity will need to cooperate and work together to survive
>the coming transformation and according to this guide (my future me
>perhaps?) a Golden Age will result.  But with all the interference
>apparently going on, who is really helping us?  I hear about landings
>(via Sheldon Nidle) and this and that ... but it seems to me that the
>receiving of messages from spirit or Space Brothers there is a great
>deal of interference.  My only vision is for each of us to visualize
>the most loving energy surrounding the planet, all living
>creatures... (Joshua)

My question back to you is, are these messages from the Space Brothers
also a form of interference?

I believe that before you will see a landing the people of Earth must
first decide if that is really in their best interest.  This type of
thing is clearly in violation of the Non-Interference Objective put in
place by the Galactic Council, of which the Plieadians are a *member*.
Does Earth want to be just another planet in the Federation?  A slave
source to the Orion Empire? A communication grid line for the Sirians?
Or does it want to be an independent unit, with its own representative
for the Galactic Council?  Without this independent classification,
the planet Earth will simply fall under the representation of whoever
takes control of it.

I think the reason we have not seen a landing is that the critical
point has not been reached yet, not enough members of this planet have
made the decision that is what they want.

Allexzander

=====================================================================

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 16:34 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Rene,

I have been out of town for about a week, so my mailbox got a bit full
while I was gone, 170 messages I believe!  I am slowing working on
replying to these, I just now finished organizing things to make them
a little easier to attack.  In any case, my first reply...

>I see. Earlier we talked on lw-l for a short period about Zetas, and
>Zeta-Reticuli system, and the way to interpret 'Abduction' scenario,
>from "negative" until "helping" point of view. For myself, I had some
>time until I was able to understand the "negativity" of the process
>of interaction of Zetas and Humankind on Earth, anyway, without
>getting into details, the negativity is a kind of disturbing energy,
>which lack, in a way, of its own counterpart to be balanced. I came
>very rarely across 'negative' energies: somehow more bounded
>presences (astral-entities), and also the way the energies got
>expressed in past 80 years in Europe - some feelings are coming back
>also from the 'time' of Atlantis, which lot of people seeming more
>and......

I think that 'negative' is quite a relative term.  I have a slightly
different view on the Zetas than most, I don't think that the
abductions are negative at all.  How could a species which has no
ability to perceive or generate emotions produce negative emotions?
On that note, how could they produce positive ones?  The Zetas are
very neutral in their emotional standing, it is the human abductees
that make the situation a negative one.  Now I am not saying I would
jump at the chance to be abducted by a Zeta, quite the contrary.
However, I am enlightened enought to know that it is *I* who will
producing the negative emotions and feelings with that situation
should it occur, and therefore have no right to blame these intense
feelings of negative energy on the Zeta collective.

>more also conscious. Hm, how you would describe the energy of
>Betelguese and it's possible connection or influence here on Earth?

The concept of the Orion Wars, and the continuing struggles of
Betelguese are alive here on Earth.  Humans live that struggle every
single day.  The weak overcoming the powerful, and then they become so
big that they are now the powerful, and they fulfill the same thing
they fought against many years ago.  We see this in the Roman Empire,
Christianity, and even the United States.  All once underdogs, grew to
be very powerful, and then start doing the same thing they fought
against, and so they too will be replaced by some other upstart group.
It is duality, a universal concept, alive and well.

>Oh, you remind me to look bigger, thank's :)  It's somehow very
>similar when people talk about Pleiades in a manner, hmm, where I
>think, they are describing just a time-frame by selecting it, and the
>try to describe the whole expression, but they are even missing other
>periods.

The Pleiadians are notorious for doing this.  They are galactically
known for "leaving out things" in their explanations.  It is never
done as some kind purposful event, but nonetheless is very common.
Many of those members of this list who have known me in the past are
aware of my feelings of the Pleiadians, and their actions on this
planet, more of that to come...

There is much to learn from the Orions, they provided the template for
duality for many eons.  This planet is reliving that endless struggle
everyday, we have not overcome this most basic concept.  Duality
exists up to the very edge of the source itself, the Pleiadians have
not overcome it, the Sirians have not overcome it, the Arcturians have
not overcome it. As much as they like to think they have, if they are
trying to convince you they have done it, then by that very argument,
they haven't.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 22:04:10 -0700
From: Flemming Funch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

At 10:22 AM 2/19/95 -0600, Richard Shapiro wrote:

>In this time of transformation each of us has our own unique way at
>looking at events.  I agree on one level all experiences help us grow
>and that people choose such lessons before incarnating.  But I also
>believe that the purpose of this transformation is that it is a
>lesson to teach us all that we are all brothers and sisters and we do
>not need to take things from each other.  I still feel that the Zetas
>are learning things from us too and I feel as more acknowledgement
>will come out about their presence that abductions will not need to
>continue.  But we each have our lesson to learn and this experience
>will probably help to empower some people past fear.  But what about
>the others who can not find their strength to reach this channel?

Right. The Zeta are learning as much from us as we from them. And the
result will inevitably be some integration and now more need for
stressful abduction scenarios.

In part it is simply a change of mind. If the only way one can imagine
interacting with aliens very different from oneself is as being the
victim of an abduction, then that is how it will appear. Once one
expands one's view and become willing to have other types of
experiences, that is what they will appear as.

Alien interactions is a powerful instrument to overcome fear through.
As is earthquakes.

- Flemming

**** Flemming Funch ******* http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/ ****
*******************************************************************
 Systems: Structures of interrelationships that influence behavior
 Synergy: The behavior of whole systems unpredicted by the parts
 Holonomics: The study, design and maintenance of whole systems

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:12:40 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Rene answering Allexzander's Post )

 Allexzander:

 >I believe that before you will see a landing the people of Earth
 >must first decide if that is really in their best interest.  This
 >type of thing is clearly in violation of the Non-Interference
 >Objective put in place by the Galactic Council, of which the
 >Plieadians are a *member*.

Non-intereference ... hm, a word with a lot interpretion space ...
ie. the different galactic 'races' are here embodied as humans,
to interfere, in the moment they breath air of Earth, they grew
up and maybe don't remember where they come from, but just the
way they think affects the reality they live now, on Earth.

We are here ... to learn and share ... if the 'assistance' turns
into 'controling', then we start an old story again ... so far
without me ...  :)

 >Does Earth want to be just another
 >planet in the Federation?  A slave source to the Orion Empire?
 >A communication grid line for the Sirians?  Or does it want
 >to be an independent unit, with its own representative for the
 >Galactic Council?  Without this independent classification,
 >the planet Earth will simply fall under the representation of
 >whoever takes control of it.

The manifold influence on Earth is not a battle about the 'control' of
it, it will be a summary of consciousness streams which are 'invited'
to be here and solve and balance many imbalances, many ... Earth is
small, nevertheless affects the entire universe, what is happening
here ... no accident that so many influences are going on ... maybe it
takes some time, when now more people get aware of their ET origins.

May we turn the key together, instead everyone tries to break the
door.
   ,
Rene

====================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:51:23 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Rene continuing to answer Allexzander's Post )

 Allexzander:

>I think that 'negative' is quite a relative term.  I have a slightly
>different view on the Zetas than most, I don't think that the
>abductions are negative at all.  How could a species which has no
>ability to perceive or generate emotions produce negative emotions?

Ups, quite a strong claim!

>On that note, how could they produce positive ones? The Zetas are
>very neutral in their emotional standing, it is the human abductees
>that make the situation a negative one.  Now I am not saying I would
>jump at the chance to be abducted by a Zeta, quite the contrary.
>However, I am enlightened enought to know that it is *I* who will
>producing the negative emotions and feelings with that situation
>should it occur, and therefore have no right to blame these intense
>feelings of negative energy on the Zeta collective.

Collective is the main-point, we are acting individually, they as
collective.

>From our point of view (individual to individual) it may be difficult
>to perceive their emotions or feelings, on my personal experiences I
>share feelings with them ... since I'm very young (when didn't
>heared/read about them), as well with other beings ... and somehow, I
>learned, that it's my limited understanding and perceptions, which
>sometimes makes me believe others are limited - but finally they
>reflected my ignorance.

>>Oh, you remind me to look bigger, thank's :)  It's somehow very
>>similar when people talk about Pleiades in a manner, hmm, where I
>>think, they are describing just a time-frame by selecting it, and
>>the try to describe the whole expression, but they are even missing
other periods.
>
>The Pleiadians are notorious for doing this.

I was saying "people talk about Pleiades in a manner", I meant people
or humans talking about Pleiades, without knowing it's bigger context
... I was not saying "Pleiadians" talking about Pleiades and miss the
bigger view ...

>They are galactically known for "leaving out things" in their
>explanations.

Interesting to hear, new for me! :)  Maybe to allow others to think
too, since "Michael Channelings" were suggesting, Pleiadians are
little bit arrogant in offering "their" solution ... now I take the
average of both views - it's ok! :) :) :)

>It is never done as some kind purposful event, but nonetheless is
>very common.  Many of those members of this list who have known me in
>the past are aware of my feelings of the Pleiadians, and their
>actions on this planet, more of that to come...

I'm listening, your patterns seems deep, here is a place to release
it!

>There is much to learn from the Orions, they provided the template
>for duality for many eons.  This planet is reliving that endless
>struggle everyday, we have not overcome this most basic concept.
>Duality exists up to the very edge of the source itself,

>the Pleiadians have not overcome it, the Sirians have not overcome
>it, the Arcturians have not overcome it.

>As much as they like to think they have, if they are trying to
>convince you they have done it, then by that very argument, they
>haven't.

The influences are here, because it's something we have to put
together ... TOGETHER, not each one should think about another, he or
she is just an 'ABC'-ian, coming from a planet and links a certain
behaviour to it ... we are spiritual beings ... and used to wear
cloths by embody ourselves on certain stars, and finally are sending
our consciousness into human-bodies to expand the experience in
duality.

We are one, and that's also the way to go 'back' ... means, inside of
ourselves ... there is good and evil side on side ... patterns went
into our consciousness to express the Self ... releasing (as we talked
already in lw-l) is done by many ways ...
   ,
Rene

=====================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 07:40:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Joshua answering Allexander/Marcus post )

Marcus  ...   Nice to meet you ....

> >However, when I start to read information from more loving and
> >non-intervening races (Pleiadians, Andromadeans, etc )
>
> Might I add "so-called non-intervening races"?
>
Marcus, are you implying all ETS are interferring that are having
contact with Earth?

> I think the reason we have not seen a landing is that the critical
> point has not been reached yet, not enough members of this planet
> have made the decision that is what they want.
>
I agree with your point that permission must be given before a contact
occurs but also that we, humanity, as Divine Children of God, have the
ability to create the world we want without any outside help.  What I
feel is the key in working with other entities (spiritual, angels,
devic, ascended masters, ETs, etc) is are they making suggestions or
telling us what we should do. I have always found a relationship with
whatever inner source provides information as suggestive knowing that
this source respects me as an individual soul and that since I am here
on the Earth plane, there maybe some suggestions that are not
appropriate (i.e. since time and space do not exist on the inner
levels).  A balance must be reached and if one is sensitive, they can
feel if these entities are coming from Love (which to me is mutual
respect of all life, no desire or attachment to change but willing
to offer suggestions if -- permission -- is given.

> >below) and to those in charge.  Why did the Greys ask that the
> >Gov't not reveal their presence, seems to me, if we link into our
> >inner part, the soul in unity, the power of this energy is beyond
> >any technology used to control.
>
> I don't quite understand your question here ....... (Marcus)

What I was saying, according to information about the treaty made with
the Govt and the Greys (via Cooper), the Greys said that before they
would exchange any technology, their presence must not be revealed by
the Govt.  I felt that they requested this, because they knew that
inherent within humanity, in his deepest level, is a spiritual quality
that would be activated if people had the knowledge of a force or
preceived enemy (not a good work maybe a challenge to the way they
live their physical lives) that could literally unite humanity.  For
example, if we all meditated for 5 seconds on the same thing, the
vibration of this combined energy would shift the reality of the earth
instantaneously.  So if we sent these beings the vibration of love,
all together, with the geometric multiple of the inherent divine power
within us, I believe a Golden Age would begin.  This is what I was
trying to express here.

Then we must also consider the races that live under the earth and
inside the inner surface, who are beings that are resident of Mother
Earth.  What is their role in all of the prophecised changes to come?

Thanks for sharing Allexzander ... good questions and ideas.  The
answers to such things will probably be coming soon.

Joshua

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 07:46:43 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Joshua answering Flemming's post)

Flemming ... thanks for your feedback

I still consider the Greys must learn about permission ... since they
are reported to have no emotions, they must consider us just a species
that will further their ends without consideration of how this will be
beneficial for humanity.  Also if the reports of implants is true, we
must also test our thoughts and feelings to see if what we think and
feel is true. I have found when you are in alignment with your higher
self or life purpose, you will receive confirmation via chills, an
energy of incredible joy or just feel incredibly connected to
creation.

IN any case, all things are in Perfection, we are each where we chose
to be for our own individual growth and the world as we know is in
transformation where the Light and Truth will be much more clearly
perceived by the people at the end of this cylce.

Thanks for sharing your info and insight ... not here to argue I hope
you know, we each have our perception on an incredible time of life
for Mother Earth ..... Joshua

On Mon, 20 Feb 1995, Flemming Funch wrote:

> At 10:22 AM 2/19/95 -0600, Richard Shapiro wrote:

> >In this time of transformation each of us has our own unique way at
> >looking at events.  I agree on one level all experiences help us
> >grow and that people choose such lessons before incarnating.  But I
> >also believe that the purpose of this transformation is that it is
> >a lesson to teach us all that we are all brothers and sisters and
> >we do not need to take things from each other.  I still feel that
> >the Zetas are learning things from us too ....

> Right. The Zeta are learning as much from us as we from them. And
> the result will inevitably be some integration and now more need for
>stressful abduction scenarios.
>
> In part it is simply a change of mind. If the only way one can
> imagine interacting with aliens very different from oneself is as
>being the victim of an abduction, then that is how it will appear.
>Once one expands one's view and become willing to have other types of
>experiences, that is what they will appear as.
>
> Alien interactions is a powerful instrument to overcome fear
>through. As is earthquakes.
>
> - Flemming

====================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 13:57:20 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Allexzander says:

>I think that 'negative' is quite a relative term. I have a slightly
>different view on the Zetas than most, I don't think that the
>abductions are negative at all.  How could a species which has no
>ability to perceive or generate emotions produce negative emotions?
.....

Gerardus here:
Exactly Allexzander!  The Zetas are learning to experiencing what
emotions are all about by means of Human Kind.  Would not Human kind
on Earth be the ideal species to cross-breed with?  Human beings have
more emotions than brains most often, the two partners make a good
balance somewhere.  Are not emotions the very beginnings of Soul
and/or Feelings in the first place?

That's what these electrical Zetas miss all along I feel.  Soul!
However I've never met one that I know of consciously at the moment.
Probably don't have to for I sort of feel that I know what they are
like.  Cooool Man... cooool as ice!  They are like a computer that is
mostly monitor... Godly greetings and as always...
                                                                .!,
        Light... Love... and Laughter...      *!* Gerardus     {-^o}
                                                                \~/
                                          Love at first byte!    `

                 ! All Realities are Virtual Realities !
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 13:56:54 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Hi Allexzander...

>I believe that before you will see a landing the people of Earth must
>first decide if that is really in their best interest.  This type of
>thing is clearly in violation of the Non-Interference Objective put
>in place by the Galactic Council, of which the Plieadians are a
>*member*.

>I think the reason we have not seen a landing is that the critical
>point has not been reached yet, not enough members of this planet
>have made the decision that is what they want.

Gerardus here:
You certainly have a valuable point here.  Another point is (mine)
that the masses on Earth truly do not have much of a clue of what's
going on.  And on top of that, even the people on this list do not
really know what's going to happen exactly.

IOW: we lack the "Cosmic Info" to make an intelligent choice and go
for it. In a sense we are like the animals in a zoo that are just
about to be moved to another location or possibly set free.  These
animals have not much of an input either.  Mankind is just about in
the same boat or state of ignorance. I feel that this is due to the
fact that the majority of us are Baby-Souls and have no other choice
but to put our trust into the Almighty, so to speak.

I feel that this is what is happening and all who say that we create
our own reality, can only say this when they realize that the big
decisions are made by their Inner Light. (The Conscious Self for many
of us is a bit of a dud).

The Inner Light or Godself knows that we are being taken care of by
either older brothers or benefactors and all the lower self needs to
have is Faith!

Now!
Just in case anybody is interested in what my decision is; here it is:

I am 100% in favor of placing Planet Earth and its people in the long
awaited New and Golden Age.  Whatever this will be I do not know
exactly, but to me it looks a lot better than what I can see develop
on this Earth in the future.  Things are getting progressively worse
year by year for the average Human Soul.  The old world is dying
rapidly and we definitely do not have a cure.

I feel that we have had enough of this State of Creativity!  And if I
was an older Brother on a more advanced Star System and I would be
knowing what's going on on Earth, I would be out there like a shot and
help these poor buggers.  So, maybe that's why I am here in the first
place, I do not really know or care. I do my best and God will do the
rest!

I trust the Universe or Life itself. It's infinite in Power and
Duration. To take care of a little planet like Earth is but like an
afternoon of picking flowers!

          I'm counting on the 5th Dimension - All the Way!

I hope I get some comments on this.  We need to reassure ourselves and
let them know we're waiting for them!

I say: Welcome to our Brothers and Sisters from Space... we are ready!
                   Come and guide us toward the Fifth.

              ,-,                                      .-.
             {o^o}    ! My wife and I are ready !     {0^0}
              \~/                                      \~/
               `           ? How about you ?            `
            Oh my...                               Come and get me...

                            *!*  Gerardus  *!*

=====================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:04:16 -0700
from: [e-mail] (Unverified)
To: [e-mail] (Richard L. Shapiro)
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?

> Gerardus === you seem to be everywhere .... besides Internet is
> really starting to bring out some incredible information ... if
>something is going on ... I hear it (or I mean read it) here.

Yeah, sure Joshua, you let yourself in for this one: Gerardus == you
seem to be everywhere.

                    Naturally I AM and so are You!
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----------
>Did you hear about the man in England who is selling real film of
>Roswell or copies of real film to Fox, for their show Encounters (do
>you get this in Canada?) Another friend said that around the time
>they release it, the US Govt and others will admit Rosewell did
>happen.

No did not hear about this one!  The governments need to "let go" real
soon I feel, otherwise NO credibility will be left AT ALL.  It's
little already! They also will have to come out that they have some
UFO vehicles.  We'll see what happens.  All I can say is that we are
living in a very exciting time. Get that book soon!

Greetings and as always...
                                                                .!,
        Light... Love... and Laughter...      *!* Gerardus     {-^o}
                                                                \~/
                                          Love at first byte!    `

                 ! All Realities are Virtual Realities !
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 17:24 MST
To: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Marcus Reinart)
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?

Joshua,

>Marcus, are you implying all ETS are interferring that are having
>contact with Earth?

I don't think that I am implying it, I am saying, yes, by definition
any contact *whatsoever* is considered to by interference.  The
Council's law is very clear on this.  Now, we can argue whether or not
requested interference is really interference.  If I ask you for help,
are you not interfering with what I might have accomplished on my own?
I say yes.  Now, hmm, what if I am drowning in a lake, and you are
standing on the shore watching, and I ask you to save me, which would
you do, not interfere and let me drown, or interfere and save me
because I asked you to.  Good question, any comments?

One thing to think about on that comment, if you interfere and save
me, okay, you have now prevented me from experiencing one of the
universe's available options, death by drowning.  With the best of
intentions, you wanted to save me from dying in the lake, but at the
same time you have done a diservice by not allowing me to have the
experience I might have requested before birth. And now if I want to
have that experience, I am going to have to come back and do it all
over again.

>I agree with your point that permission must be given before a
>contact occurs but also that we, humanity, as Divine Children of God,
> have the ability to create the world we want without any outside
help.  What I...............

Yes!

>feel is the key in working with other entities (spiritual, angels,
>devic, ascended masters, ETs, etc) is are they making suggestions or
>telling us what we should do.  I have always found a relationship
>with whatever inner source provides information as suggestive knowing
>that this source respects me as an individual soul and that since I
>am here on the Earth plane, there maybe some suggestions that are not
>appropriate (i.e. since time and space do not exist on the inner
>levels).  A balance must be reached and if one is sensitive, they can
>feel if these entities are coming from Love (which to me is mutual
>respect of all life, no desire or attachment to change but willing to
>offer suggestions if -- permission -- is given.

Very good points.  I just wish to reenforce my idea, sometimes the
goal is more respected when it was reached with your very own sweat,
you figured it out on your own.  What is the point of doing a
crossword puzzle if the answer to the whole thing lies on a sheet of
paper next to you?

>What I was saying, according to information about the treaty made
>with the Govt and the Greys (via Cooper), the Greys said that before
>they would exchange any technology, their presence must not be
>revealed by the Govt.  I felt that they requested this, because they
>knew that inherent within humanity, in his deepest level, is a
>spiritual quality that would be activated if people had the knowledge
>of a force or preceived enemy (not a good work maybe a challenge to
>the way they live their physical lives) that could literally unite
>humanity...  For example, if we all meditated for 5 seconds on the
>same thing....

Okay, very good point, I think I understand now.

>Then we must also consider the races that live under the earth and
>inside the inner surface, who are beings that are resident of Mother
>Earth. What is their role in all of the prophecised changes to come?

More pieces to the eternal puzzle!  We are not in Kansas anymore...

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:19:09 -0700
From: Tony Veca <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Galactic Council Membership:  Coming Soon
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

I've been doing some studing of the Mayan calander, and I do believe
our time is running short and we will be forced to as a race, to make
the decision as to wether we should join the rest of the "Galactic
Federation". Personally I believe that we should remain neutral.
History has proven, that the second you start irratating a human
beings, they fight back.

My other worry, is that we could find ourselves embroiled in a war we
didn't start.  In a teaser for the Man-Kzin Wars, Larry Niven makes
the statement "The Kzin found the reason that man gave up war  was
because they were so very good at it".  Could any of you imagine what
would happen if we were to turn our one major talent, to make war,
loose on the rest of the galaxy.

==================

On another note.  why is it that most of the Alien races seem to all
think in linere fashion, could this be the reason that they are
studing us, because of our creative abilities?

======================================================================

"And it harm none. Do what thou will"
   --Wiccan Rede

[e-mail]
===================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 17:24 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Marcus/Alexander responding to Rene)

Rene,

>Non-intereference ... hm, a word with a lot interpretion space ...
>ie. the different galactic 'races' are here embodied as humans, to
>interfere, in the moment they breath air of Earth, they grew up and
>maybe don't remember where they come from, but just the way they
>think affects the reality they live now, on Earth.

I completely agree.  I have been sent as an observer, however, as all
of you are very much aware, I have done a great deal of interference
just here on this list.  This interference has existed since this
planet was first colonized, it has never been given the chance to
properly devolop on its own.

>We are here ... to learn and share ... if the 'assistance' turns into
>'controling', then we start an old story again ... so far without
>me... :)

This is my only hope, that Earth will be able to exist without the
control, from any source, no matter the "good intentions".

>The manifold influence on Earth is not a battle about the 'control'
>of it, it will be a summary of consciousness streams which are
>'invited' to be here and solve and balance many imbalances, many ...
>Earth is small, nevertheless affects the entire universe, what is
>happening here ... no accident that so many influences are going on
>... maybe it takes some time, when now more people get aware of their
>ET origins.

Earth is indeed a small planet, in a sortof distant portion of our
Galaxy,however it embodies a great deal of the duality that exists
everywhere. It is a slow process, but more and more people are
becoming aware of the galactic family, and will be much more accepting
when the time comes.

>May we turn the key together, instead everyone tries to break the
>door.

An excellent quote!  .....   Allexzander

===================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 17:24 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Marcus/Allexzander answering Gerardus)

>Gerardus here:
>You certainly have a valuable point here.  Another point is (mine)
>that the masses on Earth truly do not have much of a clue of what's
>going on.  And on top of that, even the people on this list do not
>really know what's going to happen exactly.

Which leads me to belive, even those who know what is going on don't
know what is going on. <grin>

>IOW: we lack the "Cosmic Info" to make an intelligent choice and go
>for it. In a sense we are like the animals in a zoo that are just
>about to be moved to another location or possibly set free.  These
>animals have not much of an input either.  Mankind is just about in
>the same boat or state of ignorance. I feel that this is due to the
>fact that the majority of us are Baby-Souls and have no other choice
>but to put our trust into the Almighty, so to speak.

I think that you might be underestimating humanity here.  I feel that
humans are very much capable of handling this situation all on their
own.  It may seem like there are so many other advanced beings making
all of these decisions, but humanity still has a voice, and in
actuality, ultimate veto power if they choose to use it.

>I feel that this is what is happening and all who say that we create
>our own reality, can only say this when they realize that the big
>decisions are made by their Inner Light. (The Conscious Self for many
>of us is a bit of a dud). The Inner Light or Godself knows that we
>are being taken care of by either older brothers or benefactors and
>all the lower self needs to have is Faith!

The lower self has a voice, and speaks for the soul, it too, can let
its feelings be heard.

>I am 100% in favor of placing Planet Earth and its people in the long
>awaited New and Golden Age.  Whatever this will be I do not know
>exactly, but to me it looks a lot better than what I can see develop
>on this Earth in the future.  Things are getting progressively worse
>year by year for the average Human Soul.  The old world is dying
>rapidly and we definitely do not have a cure.

Just a few questions for you...what is in this new Golden Age?  Where
does it come from?  What are your expectations of what life will be
like?  What role does the Galactic Family have in your view of the
Golden Age?  What role does the human species have in its Golden Age?

I thank you for your comments and support, Gerardus, I hope I don't
seem offensive here.  Just some questions I am interested in getting
from the front lines, so to speak .........  Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:21:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Lori answerings Tony's post)

On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Tony Veca wrote:

> >Right. The Zeta are learning as much from us as we from them. And
> >the result will inevitably be some integration and now more need
> >for stressful abduction scenarios.
>
> Would you mind explain that, from the few abduction cases that I
> have had the fortune to work on, the Grays (or Zet Rectilies<sp?>)
> seem to have a total dis-reguard for human life.  And until you have
> seen the fear, the anxiety, and depression, that sets in from these
> experiences.  I wouldn't call the Grey friends, I'l call them a
> cosmic menence, just aching to be wiped out.
>
======================================================================

Well, I'll leave the most of this to our friend Rene, who has lots of
references for the Zeta Reticulans, but, I do have some books you
might want to look up if you want first-hand accounts and an objective
viewpoint from the psychologists who wrote them.....One is called
"Close Extraterrestrial Encounters" by Dr. Richard Boylan, whose
practice is here in my hometown of Sacramento.  I have met him and
seen his lectures at ET/UFO expo's here in town, and he is very
reputable. The second one is "The Watchers" by Ray Fowler.  It focuses
on one individual mainly and her hypnotic regressions to remember her
abduction experiences. (which are very very interesting, by the way) I
have heard many different points of view about the Zetas, and I can
only conclude that they are not all negative or positive, but are here
learning from us as well as doing some teaching.  In many ways they
seem to mirror our fears, and at the same time, offer a gateway to
some for releasing or overcoming their fears. Whitley Streiber also
has two famous books, "Communion" and "Transformation" about his
personal experiences with these beings. Rene has told me about
"Visitors from Within" and "Preparing for Contact" by Lyssa Royal and
Keith Priest, which I have not read yet, but he says they give a more
positive message than the channelled tape I transcribed of Michael who
said that the Zetas want to take over the Earth, basically. (not the
whole story). So, you have a wide variety of material to choose from
and see for yourself what you think is "the real story"....It's very
interesting,  but you may have to conclude as I have that there is no
one answer....  Lori

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:22:28 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Rene continuing to answer Marcus/Allexzander post)

 >>Non-intereference ... hm, a word with a lot interpretion space ...
 >>ie. the different galactic 'races' are here embodied as humans,
 >>to interfere, in the moment they breath air of Earth, they grew
 >>up and maybe don't remember where they come from, but just the
 >>way they think affects the reality they live now, on Earth. (Rene)
 >
 >I completely agree.  I have been sent as an observer, however, as
 >all of you are very much aware, I have done a great deal of
 >interference just here on this list.  This interference has
 >existed since this planet was first colonized, it has never
 >been given the chance to properly devolop on its own.  (Allexzander)

Hm, I see your point ... "on its own" you say ... as of Earth as
being, I don't doubt she went her way, and assisted many entities to
live within her aura, astral-planes and physical as well.

I would like to listen more on the way you think about
   "it has never been given the chance to properly devolop on its own"
...
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:46:04 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Rene answer's Lori post of Tony)

 On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Tony Veca wrote:

 > >Right. The Zeta are learning as much from us as we from them. And
 > >the result will inevitably be some integration and now more need
 > >for stressful abduction scenarios.  (Tony)
 >
 > Would you mind explain that, from the few abduction cases that I
 > have had the fortune to work on, the Grays (or Zet Rectilies<sp?>)
 > seem to have a total dis-reguard for human life.  And until you
 > have seen the fear, the anxiety, and depression, that sets in from
 > these experiences.  I wouldn't call the Grey friends, I'l call them
 > a cosmic menence, just aching to be wiped out.  (Lori)

 Lori:
 >Well, I'll leave the most of this to our friend Rene, who has lots
 >of references for the Zeta Reticulans ...

I wasn't sure whether I may reply this above statement from Tony ...
since I came across very often and finaly said always the same ...

   "Don't put all entities who have Zeta-bodies into one pot ..."
   "Do we the same of with humans, saying they are all the same?"

There are light-groups on Earth, there are people who torture others
in jails ... the duality is wide-range ... may we look in the same
careful view to the Zetas?  I shared my view already, and it's just
what I tried to say, don't take my experiences as general, make your
own ... if you feel so.

Maybe to short reply on depression:

The depression of people is a deep process of releasing concepts,
mental and emotional. Hold on for a moment, and remember there is an
entire universum we all are contected, everytime, also in the moment
you read this lines ... and we deny sooooo much of our
interconnectivity with ALL-THAT-IS,therefore we have to be very
carefully, if we beat the ones who assist us to take away the veil ...

Flemmings early post about his own abduction-case was really
interesting ...

 > I wouldn't call the Grey friends, I'l call them a cosmic menence,
 > just aching to be wiped out.

Those who think it's an accident they interact with us,
   may fight against them ... or dany them.

Those who trust in the way your Self has decided to go, may
   look behind the veil, and at least understand their intentions.

 Lori:
 >In many ways they seem to mirror our fears, and at the same
 >time, offer a gateway to some for releasing or overcoming their
 >fears.

Well said Lori!
   ,
Rene

=====================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:03:24 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Rene making additional comments with Allexzander)

 >Rene:
 >>Collective is the main-point, we are acting individually, they as
 >>collective. From our point of view (individual to individual) it
 >>may be difficult to perceive their emotions or feelings, on my
 >>personal experiences I share feelings with them ... since I'm very
 >>young (when didn't heared/read about them), as well with other
 >>beings ... and somehow, I learned, that it's my limited
 >>understanding and perceptions, which sometimes makes me believe
 >>others are limited - but finally they reflected my ignorance.

 Allexander:
 >I am not sure that I fully understand what you are saying here.
 >Have you had an emotional experience with a Zeta?  I have never
 >heard of this before, intellectual exchange yes, but emotional no.
 >Was this with a hybird?

Let me say it this way, some entities loose their knowledge of the
Self, when they enter into a form, a body. Ie. entities identify
themselves as human, or more attached, as Americans, Germans, Mexican
or whatever ... hm, and then they think they are this, and just that,
and use to have a certain behaviour. If an entity realize it's own
Self, the entity get self-aware, and is no longer an American or
whatever, but a spiritual-aware being. The human body has some
'features', as well the Zeta body, or other races, each of these
bodies force and deny sometimes certain expressions of the Self, if
you get aware of your inner identity (which has nothing todo with
the body you use), you are neither human, nor Zeta, nor Sirian, but a
spiritual being, but you just use a body to remain in a reality, but
you have expanded the 'limits' of the body you use. (Sorry for the
longer answer).

There are entities, which use an Zeta-bodies, but went over the limits
of their bodies, by realizing themselves spiritualy.

When I was in trouble of myself about the mainly 'negative' press
about Zetas,I was doubting of a lot of experiences I had when I was
younger, I was not abducted, but I was with them ... I had contact
telepathically, and I knew in me how they look like, also what people
describe as 'hybrids' or 'Metahumans'. I forgot a lot ... denied other
realms, it tooks some time I was again able to look into myself ...
and their I found the friends again, some of them were in Zeta bodies,
some in more close humanoid forms as myself now. Yes, I had emotional
and intellectual contact, but I didn't got messages as channelings
hundred of pages, it was not much words, it was a message of love ...
in many forms, and often repeated. It was about the way of thinking
about the Self, and the self-limited concepts, primarly lot about
myself :), when I was in different bodies and used to express myself
...

 Rene:
 >>The influences are here, because it's something we have to put
 >>together ... TOGETHER, not each one should think about another, he
 >>or she is just an 'ABC'-ian, coming from a planet and links a
 >>certain behaviour to it ... we are spiritual beings ... and used to
 >>wear cloths by embody ourselves on certain stars, and finally are
 >>sending our consciousness into human-bodies to expand the
 >>experience in duality.

 Allexzander:
 >
 >Quite an idealist aren't you? <grin>.

:) :) Yes indeed, some call me that!

 Allexzander:
 >I agree, this is the ultimate goal to reach, and is what would place
 >us in a higher frequency.  But let's take one step at a time, we
 >cannot go from a complete dualalitic system to complete harmonic
 >convergence in such a small time frame.  First let's try to get to
 >acceptance of differences before we try to dissolve them.

Yes, agreed!  The acceptance starts within us ...

 >Allexzander: A planet of beings that cannot even live in the
 >slightest harmony with themselves will surely not fare any better
 >trying to get along with species other than itself!  There are still
 >over 80 civil wars taking place right this minute.

Yes, "Release" doesn't mean all the time, a peaceful ceremony ...
Some lightworkers deny a lot of "ways of releasing" ... ie. some
people release and realize in ways, which are 'painfully' in 3rd
dimensional view. Pain is a way to realize deep, really deep ... also
a very fast way to release physical and astral energies.

 >Allexzander: Earth is not even living in acceptance, much less
 >harmony.

Maybe ... the hormony is there, we as humans just don't participate
with it ... and like to be with it, and have to do something for it,
to participate again. The price seems high sometimes, floods and
earthquakes, or more individually loosing job, and moving into another
state or whatever ...

 >Allexzander: There is a great deal more work than needs to be
 >completed before we can work on duality.

I don't understand this fully ... duality, as I felt, is in me and
projected into the reality I participate, because only there I'm able
to have this illusion ... like you said here:

 Allexzander:
 >Spirit may speak of riding itself of duality, by design a
 >biologically based host cannot.  Bio-Hosts incapsulate duality, that
 >is so that we can experience what this is like.  Spirit doesn't
 >understand duality, that is why we incarnate.  Humans have certain
 >traits that make them human, Pleiadians have certain traits that
 >make them Pleiadian.  Spirit does not exhibit these traits, so they
 >must be created by the biological host itself.  Duality will cease
 >when spirit decides it is no longer necessary, for the moment at
 >least, it is necessary.

Very well said ...
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 01:51:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Boyd Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Boyd making Comments on Gerardus Posts)

> You certainly have a valuable point here.  Another point is (mine)
> that the masses on Earth truly do not have much of a clue of what's
> going on.  And on top of that, even the people on this list do not
> really know what's going to happen exactly.
>
> IOW: we lack the "Cosmic Info" to make an intelligent choice and go
> for it. In a sense we are like the animals in a zoo that are just
> about to be moved to another location or possibly set free.  These
> animals have not much of an input either.  Mankind is just about in
> the same boat or state of ignorance. I feel that this is due to the
> fact that the majority of us are Baby-Souls and have no other choice
> but to put our trust into the Almighty, so to speak. I feel that
> this is what is happening and all who say that we create our own
> reality, can only say this when they realize that the big decisions
> are made by their Inner Light. (The Conscious Self for many of us is
> a bit of a dud).
>
> The Inner Light or Godself knows that we are being taken care of by
> either older brothers or benefactors and all the lower self needs to
> have is Faith!

But I think we really DO know what's going on from the perspective
that every one of us agreed to participate in the dimensional shift
when we incarnated. On a soul level we KNOW. Now, taking that as a
given, any uncertainties, fears, insecurities, etc. are all implant
reactions. Ascension is IN PROCESS and we are ALL creating it.

> I am 100% in favor of placing Planet Earth and its people in the
> long awaited New and Golden Age.  Whatever this will be I do not
> know exactly, but to me it looks a lot better than what I can see
> develop on this Earth in the future.  Things are getting
> progressively worse year by year for the average Human Soul.  The
> old world is dying rapidly and we definitely do not have a cure.
>
> I feel that we have had enough of this State of Creativity!  And if
> I was an older Brother on a more advanced Star System and I would be
> knowing what's going on on Earth, I would be out there like a shot
> and help these poor buggers.  So, maybe that's why I am here in the
> first place, I do not really know or care. I do my best and God will
> do the rest!
>
> I trust the Universe or Life itself. It's infinite in Power and
> Duration. To take care of a little planet like Earth is but like an
> afternoon of picking flowers!
>
>           I'm counting on the 5th Dimension - All the Way!
>
> I hope I get some comments on this.  We need to reassure ourselves
> and let them know we're waiting for them!

Right on. Of course, just because we agreed to come in at this time to
participate in the ascension doesn't mean some of us may DECIDE not to
ascend, and I think that is the head space of young souls who crave
dense experience because of the extreme trip it puts them on. The more
extreme the trip, the more that is learned and the more the soul is
defined to itself. There will always be a place like the 3rd dimension
somewhere. But personally, I'm finishing up my version of it, fer
sure, and will be joining you in the 5th!

boydroid

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Boyd Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Boyd commenting on part of a post by Rene)

> Would you mind explain that, from the few abduction cases that I
> have had the fortune to work on, the Grays (or Zet Rectilies<sp?>)
> seem to have a total dis-reguard for human life.  And until you have
> seen the fear, the anxiety, and depression, that sets in from these
> experiences.  I wouldn't call the Grey friends, I'l call them a
> cosmic menence, just aching to be wiped out.

On the other hand...

Babies being born (as I recall myself) were also filled with fear,
anxiety,actually terror at the shock of being taken forcefully out of
their comfortable frame of reference in the womb. Yes, pain and
suffering are undesireable for those who are striving for comfort,
but, I keep thinking of Casteneda with Don Juan who would be peeing in
his pants with fear at the interdimensional experiences Don Juan would
put him through. Ultimately, Carlos would accept his universality, and
so do abductees. The other point is that abductees agreed to be
abducted on a soul level and accepted the hypnotic implants to allow
it in order to force soul growth. Other people get in car wrecks,
fight in wars, have life-threatening diseases, party all night, drink
too much, breath the air, get up in the morning, have kids, play music
-- it's all for learning. :')

boydroid

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:21:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Boyd Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Boyd commenting on Marcus & Rene's discussion)

Allexzander:
> Rene,
>
> >Non-intereference ... hm, a word with a lot interpretion space ...
> >ie. the different galactic 'races' are here embodied as humans,
> >to interfere, in the moment they breath air of Earth, they grew
> >up and maybe don't remember where they come from, but just the
> >way they think affects the reality they live now, on Earth.
>
> I completely agree.  I have been sent as an observer, however, as
> all of you are very much aware, I have done a great deal of
> interference just here on this list.  This interference has existed
> since this planet was first colonized, it has never been given the
> chance to properly develop on its own.

Just like raising a child in a family, the child is far from immune
from his parents influence, human society, whether it accepts it or
not, IS part of the galactic family and has felt that presence
"interfering" since humans were seeded. Non-interference is really a
military term popularized by the Star Trek Federation to preclude non-
efficient interfacing with primitive technological societies in order
to avoid inconvenient military retaliation to perceived threats from
things not understood. To me, it's a very precise term in a very
precise context. Spiritually, however, there is no escape
"interference" from god.

Rene:
> >We are here ... to learn and share ... if the 'assistance' turns
> >into 'controling', then we start an old story again ... so far
> >without me ...

I would add 'military controlling'...

Allexzander:
> This is my only hope, that Earth will be able to exist without the
> control, from any source, no matter the "good intentions".
>
Rene:
> >The manifold influence on Earth is not a battle about the 'control'
> >of it, it will be a summary of consciousness streams which are
> >'invited' to be here and solve and balance many imbalances, many
> >... Earth is small, nevertheless affects the entire universe, what
> >is happening here ... no accident that so many influences are going
> >on ... maybe it takes some time, when now more people get aware of
> >their ET origins.

Allexzander:
> Earth is indeed a small planet, in a sortof distant portion of our
> Galaxy, however it embodies a great deal of the duality that exists
> everywhere. It is a slow process, but more and more people are
> becoming aware of the galactic family, and will be much more
> accepting when the time comes.
>
> >May we turn the key together, instead everyone tries to break the
> >door.
>
> An excellent quote!
>
> Allexzander

I heartily agree! ........  boydroid

=====================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:34:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Boyd Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Boyd commenting on Lori & Renes message)

>  > I wouldn't call the Grey friends, I'l call them a cosmic menence,
>  > just aching to be wiped out.
>
> Those who think it's an accident they interact with us,
>    may fight against them ... or dany them.
>
> Those who trust in the way your Self has decided to go, may
>    look behind the veil, and at least understand their intentions.
>
>  Lori:
>  >In many ways they seem to mirror our fears, and at the same
>  >time, offer a gateway to some for releasing or overcoming their
>  >fears.
>
> Well said Lori!
>    ,
> Rene

I would add that perhaps fear is the only emotion left for the Zetas
to feed off of, and humans have plenty of it.

boydroid

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:12:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Who started this message about the Positive UFO Friends?  It seems to
be going on and on (good conversation though) for ever.

Whoever that person is, I want his/her name.  Ooops ... wait a minute
here, let me think now, let me think .... could his name start with a
J, could it be that person, who keeps writing all these messages?

Ok, I admit it ... I did it ... I could not have imagined that the
sharing of this subject would take such steam ... but I guess with
things coming up around the UFO issues, we are all trying to sort out
what is really happening.

In any case, I must be in one of my crazy moods this morning ... so I
thought I would throw in a little lite fun .....

Thanks everyone in this list for sharing your thoughts on this matter.

May the Force Be with Us and tuck us in nicely when we go to sleep at
night

Joshua

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:04:03 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

To Allexander about the Golden Age
>
> Just a few questions for you...what is in this new Golden Age?
> Where does it come from?  What are your expectations of what life
> will be like?  What role does the Galactic Family have in your view
> of the Golden Age?  What role does the human species have in its
> Golden Age?
>
The Golden Age is when the Earth shifts in its vibration from 3rd
Dimensional Consciousness to 5th.  I feel this will take place by
2013. In this time, all life will be united with respect, in that
there will be more of a communion between the Mother Earth, the
elementals, the rocks and earth, plants, animals, humans and visitors.
Humanity will be back where it was before (perhaps during times of
Atlantis) where peace and prosperity, joy and harmony will be
everywhere.  The family will become the brotherhood of man, each adult
almost like a parent to each child.

Now, the question is, based on the view of the world we have today is
this possible.  To become from somewhat limited beings primarily
viewing reality from our five physical senses to people who will use
their inner awarenesses as easy as we use our physical senses.  If the
prophecies are correct, whatever Earth changes (if any, some will
argue we won't see, but I still think the Earth will do a few ... just
listen within to the still small voice of where to be, not also
promoting these ideas to set in force that this must be, we control
our density but Mother Earth will move into this higher octave in some
form) will take place will assist the Mother Earth to move into the
higher frequency, the cleansing as the Native American Indians speak.
Usually when a planet is about to make such a shift, the people are
already close to this new vibration.  Our world right now has so many
different levels of reality and vibration that this process will
probably be fast and quick.

Anyhow, this is what I feel is happening and each of us is involved in
this process.  If we stay attuned to the inner guidance, the ride will
be challenging and uplifting.  We may be called to assist others who
are open enough to see what this transformation is all about.  I still
think things like David Hudson talks about via Gold Powder, is a sign
that a move into a better alignment with spirit using our inner gifts
is quite close.

Again, just your friendly networker, sharing a few thoughts as I
receive inspiration to do so.  Hope all these e-mails help.  Typical
for people who write books I guess ....

Joshua alias Illinois Shapiro

(did I tell you the story about ..... :-)

====================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:02:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Mr. Obdulio Andrade-Salas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Richard L. Shapiro wrote:

> To Allexander about the Golden Age
> >
> > Just a few questions for you...what is in this new Golden Age?
> > Where does it come from?  What are your expectations of what life
> >will be like?  What role does the Galactic Family have in your view
> >of the Golden Age?  What role does the human species have in its
> >Golden Age?
> >
> Joshua's response...
> The Golden Age is when the Earth shifts in its vibration from 3rd
> Dimensional Consciousness to 5th.  I feel this will take place by
> 2013.
[snip]

Hello, here Obdulio

I was browsing through some notes I have about the Aztec calendar and
the so called "Fifth Sun Era" of the Aztecs (we are supposed to be in
the 4th Sun now). Would this "fifth Sun" be the 5th Dimensional
Consciousness? Moreover, in the Aztec and Maya tradition, there are
Cosmological Cicles called the 13 Hells and the 13 Heavens, and it is
supposed that we are at the end of the "13 Hell", and therefore about
to finish the cicle of Hells, and enter the cicle of Heavens.
According to the Aztec & Mayan calendars this would take place in the
year 2011... the time when the tradition says Quetzalcoatl (which
means The Feathered Serpent, and also The White Man (Light Man?) will
come back for good. (I mentioned something about this in a previous
post RE:Mexico)

> In this time, all life will be united with respect, in that there
> will be more of a communion between the Mother Earth, the
> elementals, the rocks and earth, plants, animals, humans and
> visitors.  Humanity will be back where it was before (perhaps during
> times of Atlantis) where peace and prosperity, joy and harmony will
> be everywhere.  The family will become the brotherhood of man, each
> adult almost like a parent to each child.

That's exactly the description of the life during the 13 Heavens
cicle! :)

Obdulio

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:28:44 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Allexzander...

Gerardus here:
In the following I'm trying to answer some of your questions.

G:
>>You certainly have a valuable point here.  Another point is (mine)
>>that the masses on Earth truly do not have much of a clue of what's
>>going on.  And on top of that, even the people on this list do not
>>really know what's going to happen exactly.

A:
>Which leads me to believe, even those who know what is going on don't
>know what is going on. <grin>

G:
Yes, that's about what I suggested.  There is no absolute certainty
anywhere except that there is a certain amount of uncertainty.  This
does not negate that we cannot have projections about the future.
More later about this...
----------------------------------------------------
G:
>>IOW: we lack the "Cosmic Info" to make an intelligent choice and go
>>for it. In a sense we are like the animals in a zoo that are just
>>about to be moved to another location or possibly set free.  These
>>animals have not much of an input either.  Mankind is just about in
>>the same boat or state of ignorance. I feel that this is due to the
>>fact that the majority of us are Baby-Souls and have no other choice
>>but to put our trust into the Almighty, so to speak.

A:
>I think that you might be underestimating humanity here.  I feel that
>humans are very much capable of handling this situation all on their
>own.  It may seem like there are so many other advanced beings making
>all of these decisions, but humanity still has a voice, and in
>actuality, ultimate veto power if they choose to use it.

G:
Yes, it is possible that I underestimate humanity.  It's partly based
on living among them for 67 years in this body.  But then, humanity in
general is/are ALL kinds of Beings.  Who truly knows where we have
lived and where we have been and what we are capable of.  Many of us
are great Souls, but at this moment we are playing the role of a
somewhat backwards Awareness. Humanity at the moment lives behind a
veil (or wall) of separation from his full Awareness.  I feel that
this is not just because some Race tampered with Humanity.
         ---> There are no accidents in the Universe. <---

We are what we are on purpose. We live to experience any and all
states or levels of awareness.  And although Humanity might have veto
power, this does not mean necessarily that humanity knows what or who
to veto!

G:
If all the decisions are made by what you call advanced Beings, this
is so because they have come here to help.  Some human beings might be
playing the role of the advanced or elite of Humanity and thus makes
decisions for many. They know the score of living in purposefully
forgetfulness.  How else can the Source experience itself, but in the
forgetfulness of knowing itself?
----------------------------------------------

G:
>>I feel that this is what is happening and all who say that we create
>>our own reality, can only say this when they realize that the big
>>decisions are made by their Inner Light. (The Conscious Self for
>>many of us is a bit of a dud). The Inner Light or Godself knows that
>>we are being taken care of by either older brothers or benefactors
>>and all the lower self needs to have is Faith!

A:
>The lower self has a voice, and speaks for the soul, it too, can let
>its feelings be heard.

G:
Many lower selves deny their feelings.  They find feelings inferior.
They like to reason a lot.  In my experience; the lower self only
speaks for the lower self.  Until the higher self is able to break
through, the lower self is a limited awareness and it more or less
circles in its own rational mind. It knows that it thinks and from it,
it gets the idea that it thinks that it knows!  I have met many lower
selves who deny the existence of Spirit.  How can these selves speak
for Soul?  I do not blame them, I just notice...
--------------------------------------------------

G:
>>I am 100% in favor of placing Planet Earth and its people in the
>>long awaited New and Golden Age.  Whatever this will be I do not
>>know exactly, but to me it looks a lot better than what I can see
>>develop on this Earth in the future.  Things are getting
>>progressively worse year by year for the average Human Soul.  The
>>old world is dying rapidly and we definitely do not have a cure.

A:
>Just a few questions for you...what is in this new Golden Age?  Where
>does it come from?  What are your expectations of what life will be
>like?  What role does the Galactic Family have in your view of the
>Golden Age?  What role does the human species have in its Golden Age?

G:
What is in this Golden Age?

Answer: I already said that I didn't know exactly.  And also, well, if
I knew the complete answer, I would not want to live in it anymore.
Why do it twice?  The projection of MY future is the experience of a
brand new ME! More awakened and more understanding of what I truly am.
A entirely new way of life, physically yes, but also etherial and more
spiritually.  More psychic, more knowing.  Compared to the way I have
lived in the last 25000 years - my future will be an enlightened
holiday!  Joy.  And the friendship of many like me.  Cooperation,
sharing and understanding of other races on other planets and possibly
traveling there.  For I will reach higher levels of awareness and
greater Human possibilities. I live - I grow - I advance. Piece of
Cake!

G:
Where does it come from?   Where does anything come from?  All things
are a projection of Mind.  Yours and Mine and the Powerful Ones!  All
Life or experiences are the result of Mind.  We live - we create.  All
of us are the Image of the Creator.  We cannot help but create.  It's
our nature!

G:
What are my expectations of what life will be like?   I already
answered some of that above.  Life will be a Cosmic Gig!  Fun!  More
so than ever, for many if not all will remember how we lived before.
We will be celebrating the very Light within us!  We are the Light of
Creation in the form of Man - a more enlightened Man at that.

G:
What role does the Galactic Family have in your view of the Golden
Age?

Galactic Family means Kinship. Gatherings of Jubilant Souls, working
and sharing, celebrating Life.  There is nothing else to do but be
Joyful!  If I can be Joyful on Earth, I can be Joyful any place.  I
expect Miracles for I am One!  The rumors of wars that are fought are
fought by the special aggressive kinds, there are many different
groups.  Same as here on Earth. Life is the Game of God being you and
me and Everybody...
--------------------------------

A:
>I thank you for your comments and support, Gerardus, I hope I don't
>seem offensive here.  Just some questions I am interested in getting
>from the front lines, so to speak.

>Allexzander

G:
No offensiveness was noticed.  Only Love can enter...

Greetings...

       At one time I dreamt that I was God  -  but I gave up on it
       I woke up as Gerardus and I knew that I was kidding myself!

          Light... Love... and Laughter!          *!* Gerardus

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:56:18 -0600
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Joshua responding to Obdulio Post)

>Hello, here Obdulio
>
>I was browsing through some notes I have about the Aztec calendar and
>the so called "Fifth Sun Era" of the Aztecs (we are supposed to be in
>the 4th Sun now). Would this "fifth Sun" be the 5th Dimensional
>Consciousness? Moreover, in the Aztec and Maya tradition, there are
>Cosmological Cicles called the 13 Hells and the 13 Heavens, and it is
>supposed that we are at the end of the "13 Hell", and therefore about
>to finish the cicle of Hells, and enter the cicle of Heavens.
>According to the Aztec & Mayan calendars this would take place in the
>year 2011... the time when the tradition says Quetzalcoatl (which
>means The Feathered Serpent, and also The White Man (Light Man?) will
>come back for good. (I mentioned something about this in a previous
>post RE:Mexico)
>
Obudlio === I would be interested in more information about the Aztec
calendar, in the last few days I have seen reference to the years
2011-2013 within the Aztec, Mayan and Inca societies.  13 Hells and
Heavens = 26, which is a mystic number to the Mayan (26, 52) and also
26 = YHVH (the name of God in Hebrew). 26 years after 1987, when the
Mayan Calendar ended, or the Harmonic Convergence is 2013.
Quetzalcoatl was the Christed person (according to L.Taylor Hansen in
the book, "He Walked the Americas", who gave the Indians the Christ
Teachings and selected 12 apostles to continue this teaching after he
left.  BTW, there have been discoveries of ancient Hebrew in some of
the Indian Mounds here in the US (or so I read).  I am sure all of
this is linked to the Golden Age.

>> In this time, all life will be united with respect, in that there
>> will be more of a communion between the Mother Earth, the
>>elementals, the rocks and earth, plants, animals, humans and
>>visitors.  Humanity will be back where it was before (perhaps during
>>times of Atlantis) where peace and prosperity, joy and harmony will
>>be everywhere.  The family will become the brotherhood of man, each
>>adult almost like a parent to each child.
>
>That's exactly the description of the life during the 13 Heavens
>cicle! :)
>
Well, when I was describing this, I was kind of feeling the future and
seeing what I saw (is interesting to see that the Aztec/Mayans also
see this future)

Thanks Obdulio ....

Another possibility while I am at it is if there exists parrallel
dimensions of the Earth, it is possible other timelines might have a
different potential future.  Sometimes I find people who say they were
in Atlantis and talk about the same time period but remember it
differently.  Boy, as this type of information comes out can it get
confusing (but is interesting!!)

Joshua

======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:32:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

In message Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:56:18 -0600,
  "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>  writes:
>
> Another possibility while I am at it is if there exists parrallel
> dimensions of the Earth, it is possible other timelines might have a
> different potential future.  Sometimes I find people who say they
> were in Atlantis and talk about the same time period but remember it
> differently.  Boy, as this type of information comes out can it get
> confusing (but is interesting!!)
> ....    Joshua
>

Rich here: Here is a piece about parallel universes, from Federation
Flash 28. (From Star Builders)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

                      UNCONDITIONAL ASCENSION

                        Parallel Universes

   There are a vast number of parallel universes, and many include
parallel Earths. From the perspective of this particular Earth, the
other Earths are simply "probabilities." However, if we were to shift
our consciousness into a body in another probable Earth, it would no
longer be a "probability" - it would become the current "real" one.

   Parallel Earths are almost exact duplicates of one another in terms
of form; it is the distinctive feeling tone and the unique
characteristics of their astral planes that clearly distinguishes
them. In terms of evolution, some probabilities are more primitive in
certain areas while excelling in others.

   Of these probable Earths, Ascension - the mutation of a planet into
its Light body - is the destiny of a certain number. As we do not
believe that spirit would send us to support gloom-and-doom, non-
Ascension scenarios, the fact that we are here in this probability
suggests that the fate of this Earth is to ascend.

======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:13:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Jal Kae <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

> >>Non-intereference ... hm, a word with a lot interpretion space ...

    Although my interest does not lie in the area of "alien" species,
I think that the issue of non-interference is a moot point: We/they
are here. Like you say, there's "a lot of interpretation space..."
    I do not see our presense as interference, but rather as
participation in the evolutionary process. (I am speaking for myself
as an other-dimensional walk-in.) Interference implies trying to
prevent something for happening, or to change something. Now, as far
as the UFO races go, what they are doing is there business. Claiming
that the Earth is exclusively ours is just a glorified form of
nationalism. And all isms have fear built into them.
    The positive e.t. friends do not want to change anyone; that is
to act from a perspective of delusion. We are here to relate to all
beings on a spirit to spirit, master to master, basis.
    When I share my perspectives with the world via the net,
sometimes I get "flamed." This is because the beings that I am
addressing or writing to are masters at various stages of awakening. I
find that not all beings identify themselves as awakening masters.
These transmissions apparently "interfere" with other peoples lives
because they make them angry. Is this interference? It would be my
guess that these beings act from a very biased reality base, and that
there are *many* things that get them angry - anything and anyone who
does not agree with their (relative) picture of reality.
    As far as "the bad guys" are concerned, if they are here at the
time of Ascension, they'll have the option to ascend with us. Then we
will live the experience of oneness and know that they're not really
bad guys, after all. It's a matter of letting go.
    In Love and Oneness
    KenDon
    Starbuilders

======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:02:09 -0700
From: Tony Veca <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Tony commenting on Lori's & Rene's statements)

> Lori:
> >Well, I'll leave the most of this to our friend Rene, who has lots
> >of references for the Zeta Reticulans ...
>
>I wasn't sure whether I may reply this above statement from Tony ...
>since I came across very often and finaly said always the same ...
>
>   "Don't put all entities who have Zeta-bodies into one pot ..."
>   "Do we the same of with humans, saying they are all the same?"

I don't put all of the Greys in the same pot, but those that do
whatever they do without the consent of their subjects are violating a
very basic priciples of  "Freedom" and "Respect", and seem to be in
the majority.  The way that I was brought up was that if you wanted to
do something to someone you asked first and respect their decision if
they say no.  This group that just abducts someone, and leave behind
an emotional wreck, I can say without reservation, destroy them just
as you would a rabid dog.

>Maybe to short reply on depression:
>
>The depression of people is a deep process of releasing concepts,
>mental and emotional. Hold on for a moment, and remember there is an
>entire universum we all are contected, everytime, also in the moment
>you read this lines ... and we deny sooooo much of our interconnec-
>-tivity with ALL-THAT-IS, therefore we have to be very carefully, if
>we beat the ones who assist us to take away the veil ...

I'm not just talking about the depression, I am also talking about the
anxiety, and lack of control over their lives.  Let me try to put it
this way for you, how would you like to be abducteed who is having
unkown medical experiments done on you, you don't know whats going on,
doubting your sanity and destroying your spirit.  Lives are being
shattered by uncaring, unemotional beings who don't care.

I've been helping these shattered souls through a group that helped me
through my own case of Post Traumatic Stress due to child abuse.  Let
tell you all one thing, in most of these cases, the victims want
revenge..  We're able to help them through the depression and lead
some semblence of a normal
life.

======================================================================

"And it harm none. Do what thou will"
   --Wiccan Rede

[e-mail]
======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:01:33 -0700
From: Tony Veca <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Galactic Council Membership: Coming Soon
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Tony sharing additional comments to this thread)

>1) Why are we forced to as a race to join any other race?  What about
>   cooperation, sharing, caring and/or understanding?  (Understanding
>   is Love)

Cooperation, sharing, caring and understanding are fine.  From studing
our own history, the effects of  a higher technological civilization
on a less technological civilization has always resulted  in the less
technological society being destroyed.

>2) What do you mean by linear thinking?
>   The energy of thought is of the second order in the first place
>   (which is a non-linear energy) and the Races of People in higher
>   dimensions do not really think much. I feel that they intuit and
>   just know things to certain degrees.

What I ment by linear thinking is that there thinking seem work in
series mode, you know A B C D type stepps.  From some of the reports
that I have read, it seems that some types of aliens, Zeta's and MIBs
in particular, seem to get confused when someone throws them a mental
curve-ball.  To me this seems to be a serious flaw in their mental
process.

>3) I admit that man is very creative, but I feel that the creativity
>   we have mastered so far is of a higher order than the physical.  I
>   see man as a learning Co-Creator and I feel that there is a lot
>   more to learn by being subjected to universal Races greater in
>   creativity than we are.  Do you think that this can be done by
>   staying neutral?  Don't you think that we could learn a thing or
>   two from other "Galactic Federation" Members"?

I have no doubts that we could learn something from them but I am
worried that the earth would be forced into a war it didn't start or
has no business getting involved in.

>4) Don't you think that we were so good at war because we lacked the
>   Light to be at peace within and therefore had trouble expression
>   love for ourselves and others??

You could be right.  but when ever a group tried to tell another group
how to live, the end result was some type of conflict.  Peace and not
having to fight would be well and good, but I am something of a
realists and a constant preminition of danger to our planet have made
me doubt the wisdom of joining a federation with the other alien
spieces.

I train in the arts of Combat, Magick, and Mind as a way to bring my
mind,body and spirit into unity, but also to protect myself, my loved
ones and if need be my race.

BTW-- My nym "Darkstar" is represenative of who I am.  A star to those
who accept the light of peace, freedom, and love.  The "Dark" to those
who would deny those to others.
==================================================
"And it harm none. Do what thou will"
   --Wiccan Rede

[e-mail]
======================================================================

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 21:53:11 HST
From: rachael davis-shea <[e-mail]>
Subject: 2011/Negative Visitors
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Hello again from Hawaii.  I am Rachael.  Some people have asked about
UFO sightings here and yes there are many.  Theres a group here who
meet and share experiences.  Most of them, I must say, were eager to
be "abducted" or at least to make contact.  One person I know was so
anxious to be included that she slept overnight in her friend's yard
to wait for them to come.  I am not one of these, so I suppose it is
not part of my agreement. Just in case, I was making white around my
body for the whole 3 hours, to indicate that I was not to be
approached.  But I know the people are sincere and find the
experience transforming.

2011, 2013 -- how wonderful to hear of these numbers in the Mayan and
Aztec calendars.  As I mentioned before, I was deeply struck by
channelings from The Kryon, who is here to make the change in the
magnetic grid of the earth, to be completed in the year 2011.
Apparently this change is critical not only to Earth but to this whole
part of the cosmos, which explains the presence of literal multitudes
out there ready to support, when asked, us light-beings who are here
as humans, who will do the work __ourselves__, finding all the answers
within, and recognizing the truths in ancient texts, as we are the
ones who wrote them in the first place and left them for ourselves to
find.  These magnetic changes are challenging for people who have been
pretty good on healing and spiritual answers, as the grid-change will
alter their whole base and place all of us on new ground.

"Dark entities" are indeed here, on this planet of free will, doing
what they need to do, which is either to study our emotions or to feed
off them. Apparently, this is the big deal with negative entities,
they feed on fear. The more fearful we are, the more they are
attracted.  Here is what The Kryon says about our power in relation to
them, at least those who have accepted the neutral implant & voided
karma or who have faced fear and walked through it:

"One of you in an enlighteded state with balance may freely stand in
the middle of thoses chanting and calling for Lucifer -- and you will
have total power over all of them!"  He explains what we call
negataive as unbalance.  In fact these entities could seen as our
*lower selves* looking to learn balance and emotion.

I must say that I have experienced this in a very serious situation.
That moment of compassion that transforms fear into love seems to come
like grace, in the form of seeing differently, from which follows
thinking differently.  For me, I suddenly saw the "enemy" as hurting
more than I was.

There is a lot about Atlantis in these channelings, including drawings
of the healing temple.  I found myself very agitated on seeing it and
reading a description of the tables and all the equipment.  I know now
I was there and have blocked it all.  I must be like a lot of us who,
acc to Kryon, fear annihilation from enlightenment, because thats what
happened then.  We are encouraged to let go of that fear, if we have
it.

I understand the term "unbalance" -- it rings true for me, and
resonates with my sense of healing, which is all about balance.  Re-
aligning polarities was apparently what was done in Atlantis, on a
powerful scale.

Oh yes, i was asked about "The Foundation of I."  Don't know of it.
Hawaii is a vortex right now for healing energy.  Just remembered
something the Kryon referred to as significant.  He said an event took
place in summer 1987, that showed the rest of the cosmos that we on
earth had made a totally unexpected leap of consciousness, because of
which leap, the dire predictions were averted.  He said those who knew
about it would recognize the event.  A big gathering for the Harmonic
Convergence took place at Haleakala on the island of Maui.  Could this
be what he meant?  Were there not other gatherings at different sites?
I would like to be reminded of the locations.

in Love

rachael               ------
                       /l /
                      /\l/\
                      ------

======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:02:26 GMT
From: Thorsteinn Bardason <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:(Negative Visitors) Harmonic Convergese
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Thorsteinn answering Rachael's Post above ***)

Hi Rachael

You ask about big gatherings when the Harmonic Convergese took place.
We had one the same days (14 - 17 august 1987), as in 108 other secret
places in the world.  Our was at Snaefellsjokull, holy glacier in
Iceland, the heart chakra of the world.  I was on of the leaders for
the festival.

There was about 1000 people there.  Part of the festival was global
meditation, and we had direct physical and spiritual link to Sedona
and few other places.

Best wishes  ............  Thorsteinn Bardason

************************
    Thorsteinn Bardason
      [e-mail]
************************
=====================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 07:06:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 2011/Negative Visitors
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Rachael,

Thanks for your sharing of information related to Hawaii and the
channel.

I believe the Kahunas talk about the people who live under the ground
(do you know about this?) and also probably know about UFOs as well.
Would also be interested to hear, if you know, how they view these
visitors.

We have been told that Hawaii has a very special energy, one that
hightens one's senses, has this been true for you.  I felt this way
when I went to Brazil and also in certain ruins in Peru.  You have
such a clarity, your inner awarness become more sharpened.

Just wanted to thank you for your sharing ... keep it up ... seems to
me that if we keep going in this mailing list ... between all of us
... we have the answers to the questions people are asking today.

Peace & Light .... Joshua

======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 18:41:55 HST
From: rachael davis-shea <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hawaii energy/the net
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Joshua wrote:

>I believe the Kahunas talk about the people who live under the ground
>(do you know about this?) and also probably know about UFOs as well.
>Would also be interested to hear, if you know, how they view these
>visitors.

"Na Menehune" in Hawaiian.  Yes, they are little people who live
underground and are well accepted here.  In the old days they would do
things like build a whole fishpond overnight, or do all the work for
an old couple being abused by a cruel chief, not unlike the little
people in Ireland and other places in Europe.

UFOs?  I've not heard any kahuna type person mention them.  The old
myths have white gods coming from the sky though.

>We have been told that Hawaii has a very special energy,

Yes this is true.  A person with heightened sensibilities feels it
immediately, especially at Haleakala or on the Big Island where the
volcano is erupting.  We are more visibly in flux here -- lava
destroying whole towns and creating new land right before our eyes.  I
stood and watched the red-hot lave pour into the sea, spouting
gigantic steam puffs and then floating red-hot in the waves for a
while.  Land sea and sky are close together and the boundaries aren't
clear.  Believe it or not, its a little easier here to love people
(its not so uncool as in, say, the urban northeast.)

The Huna way of spirit is very ancient.  I suspect it may date back to
pre-vedic original people who knew meditation and were close to earth.
Its been secret for a long time but is coming out.  Dancing hula is a
way to touch it without words or lessons.  It is not only powerful
spiritually but psychologically as well, as far as people's inter-
relationship.  The old way to solve problems is "ho'oponopono" which
literally means to make blessing after blessing, and which is done by
everybody getting together and talking it out as long as they have to.
The more I learn, the more similarities I see with aboriginal culture.

I like the net because it is way of living the new culture that will
better match our new dimension -- no rules but plenty ethics, a self-
adjusting society where respect, individual freedom, co-operation and
generosity just naturally prevail, nobody making a fuss about it.  I
think of my son, the cyberpunk, and have to laugh.  He's the last
person to call himself a scion of the new spirtuality but I suspect he
is, along with his other anarchistic, net-committed friends.

in Love

rachael               ------
                       /l /
                      /\l/\
                      ------

======================================================================

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 09:56:30 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

 >> Lori:
 >> >Well, I'll leave the most of this to our friend Rene, who has
 >> >lots of references for the Zeta Reticulans ...
 >>
 >>I wasn't sure whether I may reply this above statement from Tony
 >>... since I came across very often and finaly said always the same
 >>...
 >>
 >>   "Don't put all entities who have Zeta-bodies into one pot ..."
 >>   "Do we the same of with humans, saying they are all the same?"
 >
 Tony:
 >I don't put all of the Greys in the same pot, but those that do
 >whatever they do without the consent of their subjects are violating
 >a very basic priciples of  "Freedom" and "Respect", and seem to be
 >in the majority. The way that I was brought up was that if you
 >wanted to do something to someone you asked first and respect their
 >decision if they say no.  This group that just abducts someone, and
 >leave behind an emotional wreck, I can say without reservation,
 >destroy them just as you would a rabid dog.

I see your point, and I just can repeat what I wrote earlier, also
Flemming stated, the victim pattern has to be released and looked
behind the scene. There is an agreement ... also when the emotional
problems appear as result of denying. I know, the 'abduction' created
much fear, and I felt, it's really not their intention, really not, to
hurt as some perceive it ... there is a bigger picture, and that each
one has to discover ...

 Lori:
 >>Maybe to short reply on depression:
 >>
 >>The depression of people is a deep process of releasing concepts,
 >>mental and emotional. Hold on for a moment, and remember there is
 >>an entire universum we all are contected, everytime, also in the
 >>moment you read this lines ... and we deny sooo much of our
 >>interconnectivity with ALL-THAT-IS, therefore we have to be very
 >>carefully, if we beat the ones who assist us to take away the veil
 >>...
 >
 Tony:
 >I'm not just talking about the depression, I am also talking about
 >the anxiety, and lack of control over their lives.  Let me try to
 >put it this way for you, how would you like to be abducteed who is
 >having unkown medical experiments done on you, you don't know whats
 >going on, doubting your sanity and destroying your spirit.  Lives
 >are being shattered by uncaring, unemotional beings who don't care.
 >
 >I've been helping these shattered souls through a group that helped
 >me through my own case of Post Traumatic Stress due to child abuse.
 >Let tell you all one thing, in most of these cases, the victims want
 >revenge..  We're able to help them through the depression and lead
 >some semblence of a normal life.

Let go being a victim ... let go ... else the woundes are troubling
you and limit you to perceive the bigger picture where you set
yourself into ...

There are ways we have choosen to grow, also being a victim let us
grow ...

What more I can say ... I respect your view, and your experiences ...
I was "in trouble" as well, I went throught the fire, which was
painful, but cleared much ... I've got understanding in my heart ... I
can't share this understanding at all by words on this mailing-list, I
only can share, it was something I looked for ... very deep in me.
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 10:48 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Allexzander answering Gerardus)

>Hmm, Isolation?  May I ask you Allexzander, how you feel (I know you
>already talked about this) :)
>
>   Are you now a 'Rigelian' observing Earth,
>   or a 'Human' interfering Earth?

<laugh>  Actually, as it has come to evolve, I am both.

It would appear (and of course I do agree) that I am also, a bit of an
idealist. I like to see places evolve naturally until they become
spacefaring, at which time they would be integrated into the Galactic
Family.  However, up to that point it is nice to have them devolop
their own customs and laws, without the influence of the Galactic
Family.  It makes us all more diverse, and allows the source to have
more opportunities to express itself.  We don't get the chance to
express ourselves to our full ability when each species has so many
traits similiar to each other.

>When I've got conscious being here to 'serve' in spirit, it was like,
>hmm, what I bring here, what for this all?  Like a shy roe I embodied
>myself on Earth, and more or less denied being here, didn't wanted
>interfered at all, it was like glue in my hands, more I touched, more
>glue I had on my hands ... as sinking into quicksand ... what people
>say 'karma', I sunk into 3D illusion, with all its side-effects :) I
>was handling and taking action, primarly not very directed by spirit,
>much more overwhelmed by the intensity of 3D ... I interfered, but I
>wasn't able to perceive what I did, so I came again, and again,
>looking what kind of interference I did before, to watch the "fruits"
>of my doing.

Hmm, sounds familiar :)

>I interfere (so I hope today), with the guidance of I AM as multi-
>dimensional being, I bring a summary of remembrances from existances
>I was on other planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) and other 'places' and
>finally my deep 'home' of Pleiades, as I bring an essence to Earth,
>my piece of light to enrich this wonderful place, called Earth.

I would like to hear more of your past on these planets.  As I have
mentioned, I am new to this system, and would like to learn as much as
I can about it. My spirit remembers, but my host does not.

>That's the call I received, before I came here ... I know in me, the
>challenge was so deep, I couldn't say no :) so here I AM :)
>Allexzander, may I remain here and interfere? :)

<laugh>  Quite a clever message, I did catch your point, very well
taken. As we all know, I am no where near the root of your question,
and therefore leave that as the rhetorical question that it was meant
to be.

As much as the idealist view I have of this world, I am in the
minority, and understand that the interference runs deep, and that
lends itself to more interference as people begin to try to 'fix'
whatever it is they feel they have done.  To give you a little more
insight to my mission here, it is to study the effects of the
interference of all worlds invovled, positive or negative.  I have a
lot of my own views, which I express quite readily.  Discussions such
as these help me understand things better, and will help me when I
finally make my presentation back to my people.  By following you in
this letters, I come to understand better your views on the subject,
and learn more about the great diversity we have on this world.

I relate this planet as a "hot-tub party."  This is my best
explanation of what is going on this world, just a bunch of people
sitting in a hot tub talking and enjoying themselves.

Good points!
Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 10:48 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Allexzander responding to Rene's remarks)

>I see it like this too, when I said "in me", I meant the physical
>personality, mind and ego ... and the inner separateness get
>expressed into the physical realm, where I exist as human-being ...
>and I follow your view fully, spirit has duality as cloth, but itself
>is not of any duality ... there, the often used word "unconditional"
>appears in my head :) ... when people express unconditional, then
>it's an expression of spirit, if it's conditional, it's one of the
>ego ...

Exactly!  It seems our terminology may conflict sometimes, however
when boiled down, we tend to have very similiar beliefs.

>Same with me, I really enjoyed the last exchanges, and I was hoping
>to be able to talk longer on this issue. Some weeks before, I tried
>to share some feelings and views, but primary no-one was interested,
>and I didn't wanted perform a 'speach', but much more a conversation
>... so, Allexzander, thank's very much for your thoughts and insights
>...

<laugh> 'Tis a special topic, not everyone is interested...I too did
not want to stand on some soapbox, but rather share my views in a form
of conversation.  Again, I don't know that there are too many others
interested in the topics, but if they will provide us with some
bandwidth on this group, I do enjoy it.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date:          Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:02:26 EST
From: "Terry Rogers" <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: Sirians, Pleiadians & Rigelians etc.
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Terry responding to Allexzander previous message)

Terry here:

I am enjoying your conversation Very much!  I feel that they can be
useful for all of us....maybe bring to LIGHT some of our own
"memories" of who we are and where we came from in the past.
Allexzander (Marcus), I missed you back in the fall when Rob. R.
closed down the LAG and you didn't join us here on Rene's list...Sort
of wondered what happened to you and your companion. Welcome back!

Terry

===================================================================

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:09:51 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Allexzander speaking:
>I am a bit of a purist when it comes to interference.  I would like
>to see a planet that has had no other cultural contact outside of its
>own, just to see the unique forms that grow from that planet's
>particular essence.  The only thing that I have noted that is
>particularly human is the Baroque style.  Columns, pyramids, and
>other such structures are common place across the galaxy.  The
>Baroque is something that I would say is uniquely human, not
>something I have ever seen before.  .....    Allexzander

Hi Allexzander...

I understand what you mean by growing up on your own, but I'm afraid
that any Culture would stagnate in the end.  In my view the universe
is our relationship and the more visitors we have the more we relate!
The Source as Such is only worth anything to itself because of its
diversity and its relationships.

All my life I have been a bit of a loner and I find that the
relationships I have with interesting strangers, and maybe old friends
in the future, enriches my life.  I could not think of life without
'Allexzanders' for example, please stick around for I like and respect
your viewpoints. Greetings and as always...
                                                               .!,
        Light... Love... and Laughter...      *!* Gerardus     {-^o}
                                                                \~/
                                          Love at first byte!    `

     From New Age Notes:

        To renounce the world because it is vain or sinful or to
        renounce it because it is an illusion is a sign of
        ignorance. The world is a mass thought construction of
        mankind and it is a valid reality in consciousness.

        It is a mass mind image of cosmic energy. All beings, things
        or realities in the universe are different mind or
        consciousness constructions. All of them are only relatively
        real. The one and only real thing is consciousness itself.
        We all live in it and are it forever. <193>

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 00:19 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Allexzander responding to Gerardus)

>I understand what you mean by growing up on your own, but I'm afraid
>that any Culture would stagnate in the end.....

I agree, but this stagnation point is far in the future of any
society, and I think that almost all would eventually reach a
spacefaring level at one point or another.  It is at this point that I
would recommend integration into the Galactic Family.  I simply feel
that the introduction of advanced cultures in the early devolopment of
a culture is detrimental to that culture's ultimate unique identity, I
think that it waters it down, so to speak.

>All my life I have been a bit of a loner and I find that the
>relationships I have with interesting strangers, and maybe old
>friends in the future, enriches my life.  I could not think of life
>without 'Allexzanders' for example, please stick around for I like
>and respect your viewpoints. Greetings and as always...

Well, thank you.  And likewise, I do respect yours as well!
Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 00:19 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - More Comments on Gerardus statements from Allexzander)

>G: My plans are to be were I can be if use to others, I have no idea
>where this will lead me.  Life, or the fulfillment of Self, is the
>enjoyment or joy of the moment, wherever that may be.  There is only
>one Place - the Place of the Heart.  It's Love expressing itself!

Good answer!

>G: I have a bit of trouble understanding what you mean by previous
>host and its home.  What do you mean by this?   We are were our
>Consciousness is. Personally I do not think that there better places
>somewhere else unless we have learned to enjoy the one we are in and
>know it for what it is.  A lesson to transcend joyfully.  A place or
>body to live in for a while and get a grip on things mentally and
>spiritually.  Also, about journeys into 3rd density - I do not think
>there is a first and a last time for anything. What are you going to
>do the rest of infinity?  Growing and eventually Master Awarenesses
>cast their Self-Images all over the Universe including 3D
>                                                  all simultaneously!

Bear with me here, and I will try to explain this.  Some people have
described similar experiences on this list, so I know they will
understand what I mean here, but just in case I will fully describe
it.  I am currently living two simultaneous incarnations (that I am
aware of).  I can consciously switch between these two incarnations on
a limited basis.  One of them, is of course Marcus Reinart, who is
speaking to you now.  The other is Allexzander Kevas, a being on one
of the ships currently orbiting this planet.  For the most part I am
only aware of my life here on Earth, but I do have the memories of my
past, as well as brief excursions on the ship.  Probably the most
confusing to explain is when I actually use this body to channel, and
the being I channel is myself...very disorienting experience to go
through...

I am not aware of all the little details of how this works, but I am
told by what I call my "doctor" on the ship, that once the human host
dies, my consciousness will fully transfer back to my Rigelian host.
The dual incarnation will cease to be, and I will be back to being
just a Rigelian again.  Because of this situation, this is what I mean
by returning home. The fact that I am currently incarnated here is
(supposed to be) temporary. My experiences are not complete in my
Rigelian host, it has not finished all it has to do in its timeline,
so I cannot simply go and do whatever suits my fancy as I perceive it
here.  That host has learned a great deal vicariously through this
Earth based one, but there are many things it still needs to learn, of
which cannot be learned here.

Though a complete life here may not seem temporary, we all know in the
bigger scheme of things such a small number of years is indeed
temporary. My Rigelian body will far outlast a human one, as it, in a
physical sense, is much more advanced.  Death in that body is chosen,
not determined by the breakdown of cellular tissues.

I hope this explains some of my emotions and the feelings I express.
These are not necessarily (and in fact not even often) those of
spirit, but rather my Rigelian host.  It, too, has yet to learn the
eternal lesson of patience <grin>.  It does have a great deal of
passion though, and that  passion is translated into the words you
read here.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 23:34:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "C. B. Willis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - C.B. answering Marcus last post)

>  I am currently living two simultaneous incarnations (that I am
>  aware of). I can consciously switch between these two incarnations
>  on a limited basis.  One of them, is of course Marcus Reinart, who
>  is speaking to you now.  The other is Allexzander Kevas, a being on
>  one of the ships currently orbiting this planet. ...

I have also had experiences of parallel lifetimes.

I have memory of "one spirit / one body" all the way up to the end of
the 1900's, when I have two sets of memories for a few years.

In this lifetime I wondered if I was doing the same thing again, split
between here and Africa, but I concluded this time it was a soul
fragment and not actually myself as an individual. The soul fragment
idea comes from the Michael materials.

Sometimes confusing, but sure burns karma and gives opportunities for
service, and cross fertilization of ideas!

- CBW

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| [e-mail]            | "Values are the infrastructure   |
|                                |  upon which civilization         |
|                                |  will be reinvented."  - CBW     |
---------------------------------------------------------------------

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:14:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard Andersen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

In message Sat, 25 Feb 95 00:19 MST,
  Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>  writes:

>>I understand what you mean by growing up on your own, but I'm afraid
>>that any Culture would stagnate in the end.  In my view the universe
>>is our relationship and the more visitors we have the more we
>>relate!  The Source as Such is only worth anything to itself because
>>of its diversity and its relationships.
>
> I agree, but this stagnation point is far in the future of any
>society, and I think that almost all would eventually reach a
>spacefaring level at one point or another.  It is at this point that
>I would recommend integration into the Galactic Family.  I simply
>feel that the introduction of advanced cultures in the early
>devolopment of a culture is detrimental to that culture's ultimate
>unique identity, I think that it waters it down, so to speak.

I agree with you. Though, if an interference can save a culture from
going under, it might be acceptable. And there probably must have been
a first Culture that succeded on its own in this universe, somewhere
back in time. Perhaps several, independent of each other - when first
a thing has happened in on place in the universe, the probability for
it happening somewhere else gets bigger.

In the channeling from Archos he mentions nothing about interference.
Okay, channelings are channelings, but anyway.

I belong to the wide circle of people, who have joined what we call
"The Interplanetary Federation". It is a co-operation, which includes
all planets in this universe with physical life on them. I am now
residing in the spiritual dimensions, but else I belong to a planet,
which is beyond the Earth in state of evolution.

All physical inhabitable planets exists in a hierachic pattern in
their relation to each other. Some have just developed physical life,
others are in a evolutionary state, far beyond that of The Earth. On
all planets which develops a possibility for physical life, there will
develop beings of biological origin in a certain evolutionary pattern,
which is much like the one on Earth. Seen in the long perspective, the
planets this way are much alike. But within the different eras, there
may be many special forms of life, which is unique for each certain
planet. Human beings, in the sense of unique beings, which develop a
strong potential of intelligence and possibilities of divinitiation(?)
of soul and body, will develop on all these planets. We can be a
little different by structure and height etc., but on all planets the
human beings will develop through more coarse types, into more
delicate ones, as the divine energi more and more illuminates their
body and consciousness. (continued)

Peace -  Rich

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:40:07 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Rene responding to Allexzander Post)

 >>When I've got conscious being here to 'serve' in spirit, it was
 >>like, hmm, what I bring here, what for this all?  Like a shy roe I
 >>embodied myself on Earth, and more or less denied being here,
 >>didn't wanted interfered at all, it was like glue in my hands, more
 >>I touched, more glue I had on my hands ... as sinking into
 >>quicksand ... what people say 'karma', I sunk into 3D illusion,
 >>with all its side-effects :) I was handling and taking action,
 >>primarly not very directed by spirit, much more overwhelmed by the
 >>intensity of 3D ... I interfered, but I wasn't able to perceive
 >>what I did, so I came again, and again, looking what kind of
 >>interference I did before, to watch the "fruits" of my doing.
 >
 >Hmm, sounds familiar :)
 >
 >>I interfere (so I hope today), with the guidance of I AM as multi-
 >>dimensional being, I bring a summary of remembrances from
 >>existances I was on other planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) and other
 >>'places' and finally my deep 'home' of Pleiades, as I bring an
 >>essence to Earth, my piece of light to enrich this wonderful place,
 >>called Earth.
 >
 >I would like to hear more of your past on these planets.  As I have
 >mentioned, I am new to this system, and would like to learn as much
 >as I can about it.  My spirit remembers, but my host does not.

Host and spirit :)  The remembrance jumped into my daily-
consciousness, when I was participating two years ago an activation
work, already 'finished' the work, we made a meditation on the sea
(Ireland) ... we connected with different spirits of different layers
of nature-realm, and also the sea ... it was not very familar to me,
and while we were standing in a circle and used to give each other the
hands (not very comfortable to relax totally) I left the body and was
flying to the Sun. I was there ... as feeling home, warmth, I felt
each flame purify my inner, I was bathing in the golden fire of the
sun ... I was feeling totally relaxed, balanced ... and saw arround me
fire-like entities, like flames ... they just watched me ... said,
welcome 'home' :) ... it was my home, is still my home, I was there on
Sun, before I was going to enter other astral-planes. There is nothing
such as a time-table or so, much more making a journey into different
densities, and each one has its own 'time' ... anyway, the meditation
was finished, and I was pulled back into my body ... and I felt how
the impressions were going away, leaving into my sub-consciousness,
but a friend asked me, "Hey Rene, do you went on the Sun?" That's was
like a trigger I could keep the impressions ... and I said yes, I was
... bathing ... in fire ... she 'saw' me leaving my body while the
meditation, and she meant, like I look like fire now, when I returned
in the body again.

Months later, I figured out, that it was an energy I was 'living'
before I came here on physical ... it was like 'tasting' different
energies, and Earth is very strong taste so to speak, even the glue on
my hands is something I felt often when I had astral-traveling to more
subtle realms ... as Saturn I see, as a doorway of this solar-system,
every incoming or leaving energies of this solar-system get controlled
there, and specially when I've got info about interdim-traveling
(RKMCorner), I knew how the doorways are opening and closing, and not
visible for the ones, who have energies who belong to certain planets
and their astral-planes. As you have to give up some energy-layers of
your being to pass, but that's on the other hand the inability to
remember, since the bodies keep in their auras all information of the
planes and doorways you passed. If you are full balanced, you pass
with lower bodies these doorways as well, and then you are able to
remember, or at least to feel. So far for me, I just remember before
entering, and the way being 'watched' before I pass. This all happens
on inner, not somewhere out-in-space ... it's happening in parts of
moments ... also being 'there' ... timeless ...

And so, somewhow I keep a connection into another time-frame, you may
say 'past' to Sun and Saturn and feel that I belong, also when me
(physical personality Rene) has his focus on Earth now, this present
time-frame (1995), and still moving linear forward ... until 3d-time
collapses, and I can access the other time-frames of more subtle
planes direct ... some describe it as Ascension.

 >As I have mentioned, I am new to this system, and would like to
 >learn as much as I can about it.

Hey, I'm new too :)  so weird being here .... :) :)  Two newbies found
themselves deep in conversation about interfering Earth ... HA HA HA
:) I'm new ... but as I spent several life-times here, so I'm not
totally new. :)  It also depends, that some aspects changed while
living different personalities on this plane. I can't describe the
same procedure ie. As KenDon does, as changing several months, so far
the last major change was about three years ago.

I may also reply on the next post of you, Allexzander:

Gerardus:
 >I have a bit of trouble understanding what you mean by previous host
 >and its home.  What do you mean by this?

Allexzander:
 >Bear with me here, and I will try to explain this.  Some people have
 >described similar experiences on this list, so I know they will
 >understand what I mean here, but just in case I will fully describe
 >it....The other is Allexzander Kevas, a being on one of the ships
 >currently orbiting this planet.....

May ask you, where this ship belongs to in the cosmic manner?
(I refere Interg. Confederation, and so)

More I'm talking with you, more  I feel familar to you ... as I know
you there ... also when I look back the last exchanges with you, you
share a very similar point of view of the whole 'issue' we already
discussed, maybe except the interference aspect :) but the way you
express your view is very familar to me ... strange (something is
knocking in my inner) ...

Btw, I don't use my name here I use up-there (as you are doing with
Allexzander), because I felt that people started to connect me and
where looking for this presence, and I somehow had to prevent this ...
(longer story). Related experience: when I came across channelings I
(etherical) gave a light-group about 'Stargates', it was really
strange, because I didn't knew that my presence up-there is contacting
groups on 3D ... and finally I read my own words, from a channeler
interpreted ... it was really a concept-breaking experience, and I'm
still dealing with ...

 >I am not aware of all the little details of how this works, but I am
 >told by what I call my "doctor" on the ship, that once the human
 >host dies, my consciousness will fully transfer back to my Rigelian
 >host.  The dual incarnation will cease to be, and I will be back to
 >being just a Rigelian again......

Earlier I posted a short "excursion" I made, to up-there, just without
any preparation (ie. relaxing or meditation), and pulled myself out of
the physical personality, but I couldn't keep the remembrace when I
returned into body, it was like the impressions were not able to find
a place in my brain to remain, couldn't map the reality up-there into
my physical personality. Anyway, as said in this post, it was for me a
confirmation that there is not "trap" to be here, I do it at "will" to
be here, and I can go up anytime (as in this particular example while
eating) ... but I can't conceptualize it yet ... and I suppose lot of
starseeds here are feeling the same way?! Interesting, you shared your
view about being on the ship. I feel almost the same like you, just as
I feel like I'm projecting me into the body, and few months ago I've
got some small pieces about how the body has to change to keep another
aspect in this body. Hm, Allexzander great you share this as well, it
helps you share some of my own feelings too, thank's!

 >Though a complete life here may not seem temporary, we all know in
 >the bigger scheme of things such a small number of years is indeed
 >temporary. My Rigelian body will far outlast a human one, as it, in
 >a physical sense, is much more advanced.  Death in that body is
 >chosen, not determined by the breakdown of cellular tissues. I hope
 >this explains some of my emotions and the feelings I express. These
 >are not necessarily (and in fact not even often) those of spirit,
 >but rather my Rigelian host.

As the spirit project into an (etheric) Rigelian body, and further
into a (physical) human body?  As I perceive it, as my pleiadian-
personality is the "Identification Container", which allowed me to
visit this solar-system, and the local planets, and now finally this
density in a physical human-body.

 >It, too, has yet to learn the eternal lesson of patience <grin>.

HA HA HA, indeed, that's the problem of lot of ETs which are
remembering, since some of us aren't well able to relate etheric-time
to earth-time, it's especially seen in different channelings the last
months. And here I maybe make a bridge to Nidle, his mission, (if you
allow me to use this term), is about to relate the time-frame of 3D
(physical) and 5D (etheric), and more people are directing their
consciousness into that, we may synchronize them ... at least lot of
people will realize some pieces of their presences in etheric, and
connect their Higher-Selfs, or Etheric-Double so to speak.

 >It does have a great deal of passion though, and that
 >passion is translated into the words you read here.

I thank you for your sharing, it's like more we talk, more I feel a
courage to share more from within myself ... because often I feel, I
should remain in silence, and wait for the right time (patience) ...
thank's you came across, Allexzander!
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 11:56 PST
From: David Meurin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - David Answering Rene post)

>Host and spirit :)  The remembrance jumped into my daily-
>consciousness, when I was participating two years ago an activation
>work, already 'finished' the work, we made a meditation on the sea
>(Ireland) ... we connected with different spirits of different layers
>of nature-realm, and also the sea ...

Dear Rene,
        Thankyou for sharing this. Several years ago I had an
experience like this. I've never discussed it with anyone. While on
the sun I felt that there was no space between myself and the other
beings- the fire like entities. I was aware of our unity in a way that
goes beyond words like brotherhood, friendship, family. In all our
words of connection there is a sense of separation. Reading your
experience has helped me to understand and accept the reality of my
experience.
        Since that journey, there have been other trips to other
places and growing awareness of past lives. I feel like I am  becoming
who I am. The I is fading, growing into something  larger but with
less mass. Life in the physical world is becoming like the crest of a
wave moving in the ocean. There are no lines to divide things with.

love, David

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 14:01 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Allexzander responding to Rene's post earlier 2 msgs up)

Rene,

>Months later, I figured out, that it was an energy I was 'living'
>before I came here on physical ... it was like 'tasting' different
>energies, and Earth is very strong taste so to speak, even the glue
>on my hands is something I felt often when I had astral-traveling to
>more subtle realms ...

Fascinating!

>And so, somewhow I keep a connection into another time-frame, you may
>say 'past' to Sun and Saturn and feel that I belong, also when me
>(physical personality Rene) has his focus on Earth now, this present
>time-frame (1995), and still moving linear forward ... until 3d-time
>collapses, and I can access the other time-frames of more subtle
>planes direct ... some describe it as Ascension.

Hmm, I am still absorbing some of this, but I expect to have some
questions soon.

>Hey, I'm new too :)  so weird being here .... :) :)  Two newbies
>found themselves deep in conversation about interfering Earth ... HA
>HA HA :) I'm new ... but as I spent several life-times here, so I'm
>not totally new. :) It also depends, that some aspects changed while
>living different personalities on this plane. I can't describe the
>same procedure ie. As KenDon does, as changing several months, so far
>the last major change was about three years ago.

Do you remember the lives you have experience here so far?

As far as time goes, this has been the single most difficult concept
to grasp ahold of.  The reality I am used to does not subscribe to any
such concept of linear moving time.  You are aware of passing events,
yes, but they are not so catagorized as they are here.  The only way I
can really gauge things are by saying, yesterday or tomorrow.  If
someone asks me when something happened (past) I say yesterday.  Now
in the linear timeline that yesterday could be last week, or twenty
years ago. More often than not, which is which does not ever occur to
me, it was simply yesterday.  My brain stores events, but does not
really do much as far as keeping them in some specific order.

NOW is really the only version of time I really understand.

>May ask you, where this ship belongs to in the cosmic manner?
>(I refere Interg. Confederation, and so)

Refer to my previous post for a little background.  My people were
part of the Resistance back during the Orion Wars.  After the end of
that, we decided to come together and establish ourselves as a race of
people, since as a result of the end of the war, we ascended into a
different type of species.  This new species still occupies a host,
but it is very unlike most you have probably encountered.  In any
case, as this new collection of people, we decided to call ourselves
the Directive.  It represents various views our people try to reach
for, as our directive is reintegration into the source.

So as to answer your question, the ship belongs to the Directive.
However, I am here:
1. As a member of the Galactic Council.
2. In cooperation with Ashtar and the Pleiadian Ashtar Command.
3. As an observer for the fate of the underground complex beneath
   Earth.

>More I'm talking with you, more  I feel familar to you ... as I know
>you there ... also when I look back the last exchanges with you, you
>share a very similar point of view of the whole 'issue' we already
>discussed, maybe except the interference aspect :) but the way you
>express your view is very familar to me ... strange (something is
knocking in my inner) ...

Hmm, perhaps we have met in the Council Chambers?  I know that you
have mentioned your heritage as being in part, Pleiadian.  Did you
work with Ashtar?  Have you represented anyone to the Council?  I
would expect that we have met at some point in time, as you too, seem
familiar.

>Btw, I don't use my name here I use up-there (as you are doing with
>Allexzander), because I felt that people started to connect me and
>where looking for this presence, and I somehow had to prevent this
>... (longer story). Related experience: when I came across
>channelings I (etherical) gave a light-group about 'Stargates', it
>was really strange, because I  didn't knew that my presence up-there
>is contacting groups on 3D ... and finally I read my own words, from
>a channeler interpreted ... it was really a concept-breaking
>experience, and I'm still dealing with ...

Yes, I understand exactly your concern.  It is something I deal with
on a daily basis, who do I tell, and who do I not?  I choose most
often to go ahead and let it be known, as it helps in being more open
with those I speak with.  My name very much resonates my being, and it
makes people relate to me better if they can speak to me without the
presence of this 3D host.  As a multi-dimensional being, I can respond
to queries from people who use the name.

Now this also leaves me very open for what you describe.  However, I
do have people who constantly look over me, and I can trust them to
protect me.  I have had three attacks on my 3D being from some type of
roaning energy being. Difficult to describe, each of these were
different, but all pretty much wanted the same thing, me forced out of
this host. Luckily in each case my people helped me, and saved me from
a horrible experience.  They were set up before my incarnation, to
help, just in case.

>Earlier I posted a short "excursion" I made, to up-there, just
>without any preparation (ie. relaxing or meditation), and pulled
>myself out of the physical personality, but I couldn't keep the
>remembrace when I returned into body, it was like the impressions
>were not able to find a place in my brain to remain, couldn't map the
>reality up-there into my physical personality. Anyway, as said in
>this post, it was for me a confirmation that there is not "trap" to
>be here, I do it at "will" to be here, and I can go.  Yes, I too
>choose this existance, and as hard as it may be sometimes, I know
>that was a choice, I did openly and willingly choose to be here.

>up anytime (as in this particular example while eating) ... but I
>can't conceptualize it yet ... and I suppose lot of starseeds here
>are feeling the same way?! Interesting, you shared your view about
>being on the ship. I feel almost the same like you, just as I feel
>like I'm projecting me into the body, and few months ago I've got
>some small pieces about how the body has to change to keep another
>aspect in this body. Hm, Allexzander great you share this as well, it
>helps you share some of my own feelings too, thank's!

Yes, it is difficult to put the two together, as life there is so much
differnt than here.  When people ask me to describe certain events, I
often have a difficult time doing so, as there is nothing really to
relate with here on Earth.  For instance, the time thing I mentioned
ealier, this makes sense to anyone who has experienced it, but try to
explain what living in NOW means to someone who is only aware of
linear movement.  The phrase, "teaching......  (post fell off)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(Quessing this is the rest of the post:)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
them, and answer their question more directly.

>Anyway, I saw, that my name is somehow known, and I don't wanted that
>people expect lot of my physical personality, and felt like tearing
>on me, before I was ready ... I'm still don't feel ready yet ... and
>I'm still in process to prepare the physical personality ... to keep
>"it" fully.

I look forward to the day you find yourself ready!

>Finally the friend and me decided not to reveal our names to people,
>those who remember 5D will recognize us ... but it's not really a big
>deal or issue,just a way to prevent too high expectations ...

I understand.

>As Allexzander and Lori know me more clear, as I start to recognize
>you as well better, and maybe some of you all on the lightwork-l,
>feel drawn and nearness some of us who speak and write... remember,
>the way people speak and express themselves, is the way they have
>embodied themselves and channeling their own presence into, as
>Allexzander said ... we are primarly channeling ourSelves into this
>plane ... I feel very very glad I was able to share more on this ...
>I am deeply thankful to you all, who are on Lightwork-l, may you just
>reader or active writer ... You All Are In My Heart!

As we are thankful to hear it.  Very nice words, thank you.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 14:01 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Gerardus:
>I agree with you. Though, if an interference can save a culture from
>going under, it might be acceptable. And there probably must have
>been a first Culture that succeded on its own in this universe,
>somewhere back in time. Perhaps several, independent of each other -
>when first a thing has happened in on place in the universe, the
>probability for it happening somewhere else gets bigger.

Hmm, I still disagree on that one fine point!  I guess we all do agree
on the same point, but each of us has different views on where the
limits arise on that point.  Just memories I have of complete cultures
being lost to the Galactic Family.  They lose their unique identity.
Yes, some planets don't make it, some cultures destroy themselves, or
some other galactic event such as star phenomenon destroy them.  The
price, I feel is needed to ensure that there is no question on the
idea of interference.  Yes, bio-lifeforms get lost, but those spirits
will simply move to some other objective.  The real form of life is
never affected.

(Post from Richard Anderson:)
> I belong to the wide circle of people, who have joined what we call
>"The Interplanetary Federation". It is a co-operation, which includes
>all planets in this universe with physical life on them. I am now
>residing in the spiritual dimensions, but else I belong to a planet,
>which is beyond the Earth in state of evolution.

This must be another point where we have some other word for the same
thing.  I am not sure what term I use that is equivalent for your
Interplanetary Federation.  I am aware of the Pleiadian Federation,
the Sirian Councils, the Orion Empire, the Lyran Alliance, Arcturian,
the Reptoid something or other, and then some other smaller groups
such as mine.  All of these have representatives to the Galactic
Council, including all smaller groups that do not align themselves to
one of the Federations (such as mine).

(Continuing from Richard's post):
> All physical inhabitable planets exists in a hierachic pattern in
>their relation to each other. Some have just developed physical life,
>others are in a evolutionary state, far beyond that of The Earth. On
>all planets which develops a possibility for physical life, there
>will develop beings of biological origin in a certain evolutionary
>pattern, which is much like the one on Earth. Seen in the long
>perspective, the planets this way are much alike. But within the
>different eras, there may be many special forms of life, which is
>unique for each certain planet. Human beings, in the sense of unique
>beings, which develop a strong potential of intelligence and
>possibilities of divinitiation(?) of soul and body, will develop on
>all these planets. We can be a little different by structure and
>height etc., but on all planets the human beings will develop through
>more coarse types, into more delicate ones, as the divine energi more
>and more illuminates their body and consciousness. (continued)

Rich, I am interested in hearing more from you on this topic.  I
believe that the humanoid structure comes to use from the FOUNDERS.  I
am interested, actually, if anyone else is aware of the concept of the
FOUNDERS.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 14:01 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Allexzander answering C B Willis)

> I have also had experiences of parallel lifetimes. I have memory of
>"one spirit / one body" all the way up to the end of the 1900's, when
>I have two sets of memories for a few years. In this lifetime I
>wondered if I was doing the same thing again, split between here and
>Africa, but I concluded this time it was a soul fragment and not
>actually myself as an individual. The soul fragment idea comes from
>the Michael materials.

I am not real familiar with Lord Michael's channeled material, however
I do indeed trust anything from that source.  I am aware of the soul
fragmentation concept, but don't know a great deal about it.

>Sometimes confusing, but sure burns karma and gives opportunities for
>service, and cross fertilization of ideas!

<laugh> Yes, indeed.  Nothing gets things cleared as fast as parallel
lifetimes!  But I do find it confusing sometimes, as the barrier
between each deteroriates, I suddenly find myself in the middle of a
meeting that my other self on the ship is running.  Or worse yet,
trying to talk to my toaster, "Computer, answer me!"

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 13:18:06 -0800 (PST)
From: "C. B. Willis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - C B answering Allexzander's Post)

> I am not real familiar with Lord Michael's channeled material,
> however I do indeed trust anything from that source.  I am aware of
> the soul fragmentation concept, but don't know a great deal about
> it.

This is the book MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL and MORE MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL
(I think) by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.  Other material by Jose Stevens THE
MICHAEL HANDBOOK, TAO TO EARTH, EARTH TO TAO.  Excellent!  Though I
disagree that what they're calling essence (as role) is really essence
(which I would say transcends any kind of role at any level).

> >Sometimes confusing, but sure burns karma and gives opportunities
> >for service, and cross fertilization of ideas!
>
> <laugh> Yes, indeed.  Nothing gets things cleared as fast as
> parallel lifetimes!  But I do find it confusing sometimes, as the
> barrier between each deteroriates, I suddenly find myself in the
> middle of a meeting that my other self on the ship is running.  Or
> worse yet, trying to talk to my toaster, "Computer, answer me!"

In an age of flying toasters, anything goes!

CBW

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 14:12 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Allexzander answering David's Post)

>Dear Rene,
> Thankyou for sharing this. Several years ago I had an experience
> like this. I've never discussed it with anyone. While on the sun I
> felt that there was no space between myself and the other beings-
> the fire like entities. I was aware of our unity in a way that goes
> beyond words like brotherhood, friendship, family. In all our words
> of connection there is a sense of separation. Reading your
> experience has helped me to understand and accept the reality of my
> experience.
> Since that journey, there have been other trips to other places and
> growing awareness of past lives. I feel like I am  becoming who I
> am.The I is fading, growing into something  larger but with less
> mass. Life in the physical world is becoming like the crest of a
> wave moving in the ocean. There are no lines to divide things with.

David,

I just wanted to let you know how much truth I am feeling from your
post here.  There are few moments where I have felt such a level of
sincerity and commitment to this noble event, and this one here is
certainly one of them.  The Directive's goal is final integration into
Source, the final step to being ONE again.  We are all searchers for
this, your post gives me a warm fuzzy inside to know we are all making
it!

With life    .................. Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 23:26:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, C. B. Willis wrote:

> > >I have also had experiences of parallel lifetimes. I have memory
> > >of "one spirit / one body" all the way up to the end of the
> > >1900's, when I have two sets of memories for a few years.  In
> > >this lifetime I wondered if I was doing the same thing again,
> > >split between here and Africa, but I concluded this time it was a
> > >soul fragment and not actually myself as an individual. The soul
> > >fragment idea comes from the Michael materials.
> > (Allexzander):
> > I am not real familiar with Lord Michael's channeled material, > >
> > however I do indeed trust anything from that source.  I am aware
> > of the soul fragmentation concept, but don't know a great deal
> > about it.
>
> This is the book MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL and MORE MESSAGES FROM
> MICHAEL (I think) by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.  Other material by Jose
> Stevens THE MICHAEL HANDBOOK, TAO TO EARTH, EARTH TO TAO.
> Excellent!  Though I disagree that what they're calling essence (as
> role) is really essence (which I would say transcends any kind of
> role at any level).

Lori here:
Yay!!  Another person knows the Michael teachings!! (Something I still
have to try to convince Rene is worthy of being a 'spiritual'
teaching, after what they said about "The Aliens Amongst Us"--a poor
representation of what Michael is all about...well, I don't mean that
I have to, I just want to....)  :)  (Sorry Rene!!)  I am still trying
to master this material myself...and would like to add, that after 25
years of working through channels, Michael has also evolved and have
said that they did not intend their roles, personality & ego
descriptions to be 'limitations' on essence, but actually something
more like pallets with which we paint the artwork of our lives
with....They have noticed that people have taken some of their
teachings to extremes, saying, "you can't be this or that" but they
did not intend it to be like that....the more modern teachings given
by a number of channels in classes (like the ones I'm taking) reflect
this more open and non-limiting aspect, that show how the roles and
overleaves are tools for the evolution of spirit, that help us give
names to feelings, and ways to understand (intellectually) who we are
better, and why....at least, it has done this for me.

I have been working on bringing some of the basic Michael teachings to
LW-L but so far have only gotten one piece done (the Time Lords have
not given me enough Time to finish a second part yet!!  Ha ha ha!)
One book you may be particularly interested in is a very small red
book by Emily Baumbach called, "Parallel Universes: Your Other
Selves"...I am beginning to understand more aspects of this tiny book
which is packed with info on how you exist outside of time and space,
and also in time and space simultaneously with other aspects of your
Self...In there, Michael says, "Remember: time, space, and thought are
all the same thing."  I'm still blown away by this concept when i get
confirmation of it...and I have, right here on this list (and at the
bookstore, yesterday, and today...and so on)  I mean, of course
we are all connected by being a part of the Whole, the One, whatever
you want to call it (Michael calls it the Tao)  but when you get out
to where we are now on an essence-fragment level, and you've just
gotten used to the idea that you have past, future, and parallel
lives, (but it's all you) and if you are like me and are just really
starting to remember your other connections, and just learning you can
connect to these other aspects, your I AM presence, and to others on
an essence level, wow....I just get really blown away....(and being a
scholar essence with an artisan essence twin, I want to know
everything...and be creative with it too!!  I do fit my role pretty
well... but it is not a limitation.  :)  )  We forget so much being
here, and I am just starting to remember, and I want to thank you all
for being here on this list, and sharing your thoughts/feelings, it
has been such an experience for me, meeting lightworkers, learning
about things I never dreamed of even 6 months ago, before I found more
Michael teachings, Spirit-WWW, and now this mail list with you
wonderful people!  I have made my first contact with another aspect of
my Self here (at first I thought it was a scary thought that there
might be other people in this world who were as weird as I am....
ha ha ha! Or even from another world, like I was remembering.)  But
it's been soooo great!  Things I thought of when I was 14, things I
thought were an over-active imagination (hi Gerardus) I'm finding out
were really true, or perhaps I have made them come true...hmmmm??
Maybe I just put all of it into this parallel universe, where I am
writing to you from, and in another somewhere, will not go through the
Ascension?  I am  striving for the unconditional ascension, though,
where we all go, parallel or not! Nevertheless, I AM.  (hey I'm ready
for that photon belt...bring it in! I'd say my husband's not quite
ready, but I'll make sure he gets dragged along for the ride--I know
he won't want to miss this one! And about the laundry Gerardus, I
suggest buying extra underwear...;))

Beam me up, Allexzander!!  :)

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 01:43:22 -0700
From: Flemming Funch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Flemming answering Allexzander's question)

At 14:01 2/25/95 -0700, Marcus Reinart wrote:

>Rich, I am interested in hearing more from you on this topic.  I
>believe that the humanoid structure comes to use from the FOUNDERS.
>I am interested, actually, if anyone else is aware of the concept of
>the FOUNDERS.

The energy of the Founders is something I feel very much in resonance
with. Not particularly in any way I can explain, though. But I can
sometimes feel their invisible all-pervasive presence.

Otherwise, the Arcturian energy is what I mostly identify with, and
where I consider myself as being from, in the relative short term, if
it at all makes sense for multi-dimensional beings to be "from"
somewhere.

The Founders are described very well in "Prism of Lyra" by Lyssa
Royal, which is about my most favorite book.

- Flemming

aka

Amira Kataan


*** You are the experience the universe is having right now ***

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 01:43:16 -0700
From: Flemming Funch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Flemming answering C.B.'s post)

At 23:34 2/24/95 -0800, C. B. Willis wrote:
>
>I have also had experiences of parallel lifetimes.
>
>I have memory of "one spirit / one body" all the way up to the end of
>the 1900's, when I have two sets of memories for a few years.

I've had the experience of several incarnations melting together, what
is referred to as soul-braiding. Before 1979 I have two parallel sets
of memories, both going back to parallel lifetimes before that.

Once last year I had the experience of getting into a space where I
was aware of existing in 24 incarnations on Earth simultaneously, in
present time. Quite amazing, I suddenly had access to different
languages and memories, and there was kind of a "control room" where I
could easily monitor and switch in and out of these various lives and
what was going on in them. It lasted for about a half hour and then I
dropped out of it again.

- Flemming

**** Flemming Funch ******* http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/ ****
*******************************************************************

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 00:37:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

On Sat, 25 Feb 1995, Marcus Reinart wrote:

> Rene:
> >Months later, I figured out, that it was an energy I was 'living'
> >before I came here on physical ... it was like 'tasting' different
> >energies, and Earth is very strong taste so to speak, even the glue
> >on my hands is something I felt often when I had astral-traveling
> >to more subtle realms ... as Saturn I see, as a doorway of this
> >solar-system, every incoming or leaving energies of this solar-
> >system get controlled there, and specially when I've got infos
> >about interdim-traveling (RKMCorner), I knew how the doorways are
> >opening and closing ....
>
Allexzander:
> Fascinating!
>
Lori:
I agree, fascinating, Captain....
I wanted to interrupt the conversation (where I bailed out quite a
while back) to tell you mainly Allexzander and Rene, that I have been
thoroughly enjoying this conversation, as it has been, I feel, very
close to the heart of matters I feel connected to with my vague
memmories of being an ET here for some so-called "mission" that I'm
still trying to figure out what it is exactly, but have 'known' for
some time now, at least, there is a reason for being here now.  You
guys are like, throwing out these little 'keys' that I pick up, and
try them in the locks on doors that have not been opened in a long
time for me, and I am finding some of these keys are unlocking some of
these doors.... I am fascinated too by the domino-effect this has had
in my 3-D life, as I have been finding these doorways lead to many
other people's doors as well... to make the analogy.  Rene, I am still
trying to comprehend your ideas from RKM Corner on these different
realities, maybe we use different words to say the same things, but I
am not sure what to ask to clarify yet...perhaps another 'time'...like
Allexzander says below.

Rene:
> >And so, somewhow I keep a connection into another time-frame, you
> >may say 'past' to Sun and Saturn and feel that I belong, also when
> >me (physical personality Rene) has his focus on Earth now, this
> >present time-frame (1995), and still moving linear forward ...
> >until 3d-time collapses, and I can access the other time-frames of
> >more subtle planes direct ... some describe it as Ascension.

> >Hey, I'm new too :)  so weird being here .... :) :)  Two newbies
> >found themselves deep in conversation about interfering Earth ...
> >HA HA HA :) I'm new ... but as I spent several life-times here, so
> >I'm not totally new. :)  It also depends, that some aspects changed
> >while living different personalities on this plane. I can't
> >describe the same procedure ie. As KenDon does, as changing several
> >months, so far the last major change was about three years ago.
>
Lori:
So do you believe you are a walk-in, Rene?

Rene:
> >May ask you, where this ship belongs to in the cosmic manner?
> >(I refere Interg. Confederation, and so)
>
Allexzander:
> Refer to my previous post for a little background.  My people were
> part of the Resistance back during the Orion Wars.  After the end of
> that, we decided to come together and establish ourselves as a race
> of people, since as a result of the end of the war, we ascended into
> a different type of species.  This new species still occupies a
> host,but it is very unlike most you have probably encountered.  In
> any case, as this new collection of people, we decided to call
> ourselves the Directive.  It represents various views our people try
> to reach for, as our directive is reintegration into the source.
>
> So as to answer your question, the ship belongs to the Directive.
> However, I am here 1. As a member of the Galactic Council.  2. In
> cooperation with Ashtar and the Pleiadian Ashtar Command.  3.  As
> an observer for the fate of the underground complex beneath Earth.
>
Rene:
> >More I'm talking with you, more  I feel familar to you ... as I
> >know you there ... also when I look back the last exchanges with
> >you, you share a very similar point of view of the whole 'issue' we
> >already discussed, maybe except the interference aspect :) but the
> >way you express your view is very familar to me ... strange
> >(something is knocking in my inner) ...
>
Allexzander:
> Hmm, perhaps we have met in the Council Chambers?  I know that you
> have memtioned your heritage as being in part, Pleiadian.  Did you
> work with Ashtar?  Have you represented anyone to the Council?  I
> would expect that we have met at some point in time, as you too,
> seem familiar.

> Rene:
> >Btw, I don't use my name here I use up-there (as you are doing with
> >Allexzander), because I felt that people started to connect me and
> >where looking for this presence, and I somehow had to prevent this
> >... (longer story).

Lori:
Please do tell sometime!!!!!! :)  :)

Rene: (all > > below)
> > Related experience: when I came across channelings I (etherical)
> >gave a light-group about 'Stargates', it was really strange,
> >because I didn't knew that my presence up-there is contacting
> >groups on 3D ... and finally I read my own words, from a channeler
> >interpreted ... it was really a concept-breaking experience, and
> >I'm still dealing with ...
>
Allexzander: (all > below)
> Yes, I understand exactly your concern.  It is something I deal with
> on a daily basis, who do I tell, and who do I not?  I choose most
> often to go ahead and let it be known, as it helps in being more
> open with those I speak with.  My name very much resonates my being,
> and it makes people relate to me better if they can speak to me
> without the presence of this 3D host.  As a multi-dimensional being,
> I can respond to queries from people who use the name.
>
Lori:
I'm very glad to hear that you are so open about who you are,
Allexzander, it is very inspiring....A while back you mentioned a
friend you have from a star system in the third star in Orion's
belt,(that one is Mintaka, or Alniham?  I forget...)  I wondered if
you could tell me more about the people of that system too?  About
spirit-names, I'll share the one I got (or found?) when I was about
14, but I didn't know it was really me at the time...it was Alena
(I used to spell it Elaina but it didn't seem quite right) and I would
draw pictures of her, and crystal spaceships, forms of which I have
gotten confirmation from others that they are really like I drew
them....This name really resonated with me, but it would be too
intense to have people calling me this or anything similar, so I don't
use it casually.  I have a difficult time staying grounded as it is,
so it is easier for me to handle being called Lori, at least for now.
My aspect of Alena connects to Sirius the most, and also Vega, the
Pleiades, and the Angelic and Devic Realms, but I find more and
more connections all the time (most are here on Earth or the Solar
System.)

Allexzander:
> Now this also leaves me very open for what you describe.  However, I
> do have people who constantly look over me, and I can trust them to
> protect me.  I have had three attacks on my 3D being from some type
> of roaning energy being.  Difficult to describe, each of these were
> different, but all pretty much wanted the same thing, me forced out
> of this host. Luckily in each case my people helped me, and saved me
> from a horrible experience.  They were set up before my incarnation,
> to help, just in case.
>
Lori:
I believe we all have guardians of some sort watching over us, so to
speak, and they can help us a lot if we are open and let them in...I
know mine have helped 'save' me from disaster many times, when I've
been open enough to listen....they also have been doing massive work
on my bodily structure, preparing the way for (I'm hoping!!)
Ascension, not only physical, but much more than that!

> >Earlier I posted a short "excursion" I made, to up-there, just
> >without any preparation (ie. relaxing or meditation), and pulled
> >myself out of the physical personality, but I couldn't keep the
> >remembrace when I returned into body, it was like the impressions
> >were not able to find a place in my brain to remain, couldn't map
> >the reality up-there into my physical personality. Anyway, as said
> >in this post, it was for me a confirmation that there is not "trap"
> >to be here, I do it at "will" to be here, and I can go
>
> Yes, I too choose this existance, and as hard as it may be
> sometimes, I know that was a choice, I did openly and willingly
> choose to be here.

That was a hard lesson to get wasn't it!!!?  (It was for me.)
>
> >up anytime (as in this particular example while eating) ... but I
> >can't conceptualize it yet ... and I suppose lot of starseeds here
> >are feeling the same way?! Interesting, you shared your view about
> >being on the ship. I feel almost the same like you, just as I feel
> >like I'm projecting me into the body, and few months ago I've got
> >some small pieces about how the body has to change to keep another
> >aspect in this body. Hm, Allexzander great you share this as well,
> >it helps you share some of my own feelings too, thank's!
>
Allexzander:
> Yes, it is difficult to put the two together, as life there is so
> much differnt than here.  When people ask me to describe certain
> events, I often have a difficult time doing so, as there is nothing
> really to relate with here on Earth.  For instance, the time thing I
> mentioned ealier, this makes sense to anyone who has experienced it,
> but try to explain what living in NOW means to someone who is only
> aware of linear movement.  The phrase, "teaching
>
Lori:
Oh, it looks like your phrase got cut off??  I didn't see any more of
it. Anyway, I like your views and posts here, it helps me start
remembering many things too....like the Ships, I know them.... :)
..... Thank you! Love and Light ...........   Lori

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 11:41:25 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Allexzander,

 >>Hey, I'm new too :)  so weird being here .... :) :)  Two newbies
 >>found themselves deep in conversation about interfering Earth ...
 >>HA HA HA :) I'm new ... but as I spent several life-times here, so
 >>I'm not totally new. :)
 >
 >Do you remember the lives you have experience here so far?

Three lifes, or better said, the body-life-times, and two not fully,
the others, about eight lifes, I can't recall now ...

As I read Flemmings posts about different parallel lifes, me too, but
not this time-frame now. For me it's now really 'time' to meet lot of
aspects of my Self. (Will reply on this next posts in reply of Lori)

Few fragments of life-time about Atlantis is also present, but not
that spectacular as some of you may suppose :) ...

Maybe I may describe more like this (the term of past-lifes has
changed in me since that) ... in a pervious post about the Zeta-
Abduction and victim pattern I replied on Tony, that I also was "in
trouble", and I was meaning I had a very deep pattern of being a
victim, and this pattern was created when I was 25, in my 5th past-
life (measured in linear-time), more I grew up, more the impression
reached my daily-consciousness, and finally at the same age, it was
complete in me, I was living it again, not physical, but emotionally,
and it was so intense, that I got later the impression, that I
connected my embodied self in past and balanced with this incarnation
in this present time-frame, with the 'letting go' out of my aura ...
but taking the essence of the teaching. I didn't had such experiences
before in this body, and somehow the intensivity of the happening was
able to give me the opportunity to watch another time-line, even the
past.

Maybe David, who replied on the short description about visiting Sun
astrally may share also some impression of accessing 'past-lifes' ...

 >As far as time goes, this has been the single most difficult concept
 >to grasp ahold of.  The reality I am used to does not subscribe to
 >any such concept of linear moving time.  You are aware of passing
 >events, yes, but they are not so catagorized as they are here.  The
 >only way I can really gauge things are by saying, yesterday or
 >tomorrow.  If someone asks me when something happened (past) I say
 >yesterday.  Now in the linear timeline that yesterday could be last
 >week, or twenty years ago. More often than not, which is which does
 >not ever occur to me, it was simply yesterday.  My brain stores
 >events, but does not really do much as far as keeping them in some
 >specific order.

I completly share the same view ...

 >>More I'm talking with you, more  I feel familar to you ... as I
 >>know you there ... also when I look back the last exchanges with
 >>you, you share a very similar point of view of the whole 'issue' we
 >>already discussed, maybe except the interference aspect :) but the
 >>way you express your view is very familar to me ... strange
 >>(something is knocking in my inner) ...
 >
 >Hmm, perhaps we have met in the Council Chambers?  I know that you
 >have memtioned your heritage as being in part, Pleiadian.
 >Have you represented anyone to the Council?  I would expect that we
 >have met at some point in time, as you too, seem familiar.

Hmm, as having exchanged almost the same thing we are discussing here,
it feel like for me, that by talking here I'm pulling down the stuff
we talked about already on the ships ... like a chain ... your
arguments and view are too familar to me ....

I tried several times, (also once here on lw-l), to trigger some
people to remember on the ships, it's now the first time on lw-l so
far ... as you said Allexzander, patience ...

 >Did you work with Ashtar?

Yes ... I don't know what more I can say ... Yes, *very* deep with him
... I can't describe my connection with him in words ... it's beyond
words ...     .......................................
.................................

 >>Btw, I don't use my name here I use up-there (as you are doing with
 >>Allexzander), because I felt that people started to connect me and
 >>where looking for this presence, and I somehow had to prevent this
 >>... (longer story). Related experience: when I came across
 >>channelings I (etherical) gave a light-group about 'Stargates', it
 >>was really strange, because I didn't knew that my presence up-there
 >>is contacting groups on 3D ... and finally I read my own words,
 >>from a channeler interpreted ... it was really a concept-breaking
 >>experience, and I'm still dealing with ...
 >
 >Yes, I understand exactly your concern.  It is something I deal with
 >on a daily basis, who do I tell, and who do I not?  I choose most
 >often to go ahead and let it be known, as it helps in being more
 >open with those I speak with.  My name very much resonates my being,
 >and it makes people relate to me better if they can speak to me
 >without the presence of this 3D host.  As a multi-dimensional being,
 >I can respond to queries from people who use the name.

I see ... I talked some months ago also with a person, I suppose he
will join soon this list as well (maybe some weeks or so), and he uses
his etheric name and he was suggesting to use my ehteric name here
too, to integrate my presence more deep, it's maybe I have to deal
more ...
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 11:54:49 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Parallel Lifes [was Re: The Positive UFO friends?]
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(I changed the subject, that we have a better overview so far, since
under subject "Re: The Positive UFO friends?" we are talking now
different subjects) :)

 C.B.Willis:
 >>I have also had experiences of parallel lifetimes.
 >>I have memory of "one spirit / one body" all the way up to the end
 >>of the 1900's, when I have two sets of memories for a few years.

 Flemming:
 >I've had the experience of several incarnations melting together,
 >what is referred to as soul-braiding. Before 1979 I have two
 >parallel sets of memories, both going back to parallel lifetimes
 >before that.

Soul-Braiding ... did you met this person in physical? I ask
because,just the last months, I met people who keep aspect of my own,
the Self, where the physical personality is a part of, a seed ... ie.
when I met a person, it was like we exchanged memory of each own, the
essence ... the "teaching of soul" ... I was talking with Lori direct
by email, and shared some feelings having 'aspects' in other bodies
... so far, I know that in two years such a 'soul-braiding' comes to
me, where my body has to change dramatically to keep a new
constellation of the Self ... it's somehow difficult to describe ...
(I feel we are here really going into some kind of new area of
talking) ...

 Flemming:
 >Once last year I had the experience of getting into a space where I
 >was aware of existing in 24 incarnations on Earth simultaneously, in
 >present time. Quite amazing, I suddenly had access to different
 >languages and memories, and there was kind of a "control room" where
 >I could easily monitor and switch in and out of these various lives
 >and what was going on in them. It lasted for about a half hour and
 >then I dropped out of it again.

It sounds like you were experiences taking up different time-lines and
allow yourself to keep it ... the description of 'control room' is
quite well taken ... I somehow was coming earlier a similar feeling,
but I was somehow afraid to allow it to happen, just too many
impressions started to flood my being, and I was finally to less
grounded to sort and keep that all in me ... Flemming, you are highly
gifted that you allowed yourself this to happen ... Thank's you shared
this with us!
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 13:15:17 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Lori, Allexzander and All (continuing conversation about remembering
                           a second part of our lives as an ET Being)

 >Lori:
 >I wanted to interrupt the conversation (where I bailed out quite a
 >while back) to tell you mainly Allexzander and Rene, that I have
 >been thoroughly enjoying this conversation, as it has been, I feel,
 >very close to the heart of matters I feel connected to with my vague
 >memmories of being an ET here for some so-called "mission" that I'm
 >still trying to figure out what it is exactly, but have 'known' for
 >some time now, at least, there is a reason for being here now.  You
 >guys are like, throwing out these little 'keys' that I pick up, and
 >try them in the locks on doors that have not been opened in a long
 >time for me, and I am finding some of these keys are unlocking some
 >of these doors....

Yup ... same to me ... more we are talking, more things appear in my
head, where I long time awaited to share ... I experienced often that
I was trying to share impression from the 'ships', but finally felt in
me too, I should keep it for myself ... and somehow I knew also, I
have to wait until there are those, who remember, for the others (who
don't remember) it will simply make no sense at all ... (or sounds
like StarTrek episodes)

 >>Rene:
 >> >I'm new ... but as I spent several life-times here, so I'm not
 >> >totally new. :) It also depends, that some aspects changed while
 >> >living different personalities on this plane. I can't describe
 >> >the same procedure ie. as KenDon does, as changing several
 >> >months, so far the last major change was about three years ago.
 >>
 >Lori:
 >So do you believe you are a walk-in, Rene?

I far I know, no - I'm not ... three years ago another soul-aspect
came into the body, another left, but they are parts of my Self, soul-
aspects. I may use another view to share what I mean: some past-lifes,
different aspects lived, which I call today 'my past-lifes', but
primary there were a bunch of  aspects who lived different parts of
one existance, like frequent changes during the existance. But as
said, it doesn't occured that often, it was really dependent of
changes in my life, didn't had to be tremendous, but there were like
'stages', who I made a leap, without having outer-influences or
triggers.

Three years ago (as posted in 1-2 posts before), I was "in trouble",
and released a more or less deep pattern being a victim, I kept even
several existances in me (always the same aspect kept it), and after
the patterns was balanced from the other time-line (past), this aspect
could complete the cycle of the pattern and left the body-personality.

Honestly I have to say, I don't know much about walk-ins, maybe I came
across too many explanations, which didn't mapped my own personal
experience well, so, no walk-in. :)  I know that some people are
sometimes very very flexible with this term, ie. as KenDon uses the
term (so far I read his articles), anyway, I may prefere to describe
it not with the use of "Walk-In".

 >> Rene:
 >> >Btw, I don't use my name here I use up-there (as you are doing
 >> >with Allexzander), because I felt that people started to connect
 >> >me and where looking for this presence, and I somehow had to
 >> >prevent this ... longer story).
 >
 >Lori:
 >Please do tell sometime!!!!!! :)  :)

:) (I hope I don't dominate lw-l too much with sharing all that, so I
make it short as possible)

When I was in this activation-group two years ago (aprx.), some of us
made contact with the etheric-presences ... and my friend, who guided
the group, found out or discovered his presence ...

I maybe have to recall some of the beginning of revealing the Ashtar-
Command, some presences started very early to contact embodied
entities on Earth, and offered different ways to ascend, also the
Earth-Evacuation scenario.

More the embodied Ashtar-Command could collect 3D impressions and
relate to etheric, more the scenarios changed and got also more
concrete ... we learned to handle both planes better to each other.
While this communication was started, some of the Ashtar-Command, ie.
Ashtar himself, Soltec, Korton and various other commanders were very
urgent in sharing and revealing the etheric reality, and could wake-up
a lot of embodied Starseeds who relate to the Ashtar-Command.

Parallel, other lightgroups connected the Melchizdek-Order, Metatron-
Group, and several other Angelical Groups etc ... each group woke up
their own embodied entities (means, people felt drawn to specific
groups, seminars and books or had experiences related to them).

Anyway, the names we both got (my friend and I) were known, by
channelings from the starting communication with light-groups,
especially his presence was connecting a lot of groups ... so far for
me, I (etheric) am/was guiding several small groups in arround the
world (Netherland, Hawaii ..), so far I recall.

During the work we did, we shared (all of the group) our names ... and
some were very suprised ... and then few people started saying, I will
call you as etheric-presence for guidance and so ... and finally I had
the impression, I gave a key to others, which they couldn't handle ...
didn't understood on 3D.

I maybe may say too, knowing the etheric-name isn't something deeply
necessary, or "important" ... but it helps to relate the physical
personality with the etheric personality by using this name in 3D.
Each time when used, the connection gets stronger ... (Allexzander may
add here some own experiences and feelings so I suppose)

Anyway, I saw, that my name is somehow known, and I don't wanted that
people expect lot of my physical personality, and felt like tearing on
me, before I was ready ... I'm still don't feel ready yet ... and I'm
still in process to prepare the physical personality ... to keep "it"
fully.

Finally the friend and me decided not to reveal our names to people,
those who remember 5D will recognize us ... but it's not really a big
deal or issue, just a way to prevent too high expectations ...

As Allexzander and Lori know me more clear, as I start to recognize
you as well better, and maybe some of you all on the lightwork-l, feel
drawn and nearness some of us who speak and write... remember, the way
people speak and express themselves, is the way they have embodied
themselves and channeling their own presence into, as Allexzander said
... we are primarly channeling ourSelves into this plane ...

I feel very very glad I was able to share more on this ... I am deeply
thankful to you all, who are on Lightwork-l, may you just reader or
active writer ... You All Are In My Heart!
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 07:37:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** Joshua jumping into the frey of this hot topic!!!!)

Rene,

What have you been hiding from us ... a terrific message here.

I suspect the increases in messages on this mailing list is due to the
increasing energies that are getting ready to boil to the surface.
Something big is going on and as each of us here shares our
experiences and pieces we are gaining some clarity into what is about
to unfold.

If my guidance is correct, I expect some real reality jolts coming up
soon and as I shared with a group last night, those of us who are
already in touch with spirit are going to be called upon by others who
will start to wake up, to explain why our world is changing.

Peace & Light always ... just another lightworker somewhere out there

Joshua

(*** Sidenote:  As I was putting this information together in this
file, I really didn't have a chance to participate in this
conversation of true galactic identities because I was busy trying to
get our Web Site up on Internet .... I thought I would take this
editorial moment, to add a few insights to this most intriguing
conversation .... ok, so here goes ....

// not originally posted into the Lightworkers List //

It is amazing how much about ourselves we don't know or how to be able
to describe it. It seems that within each of us is like a little
program that as certain events or situations occur, the door opens and
we begin to remember who we are.  I have worked with many Star People
since I read Brad & Francie Steiger's book on this subject.  You can
tell a Star Person by looking into their eyes and seeing it blazing
with a Light.  Most of these people have had a hard time dealing with
the Earth reality because it is so different from their home world but
they felt drawn to come, to volunteer, to help the souls on this
planet prepare for the spiritual evolution ahead.  Some people have
told me that I am not from this planet either, but you know what, I
don't believe any of us came from here.  I think that our souls were
drawn to this classroom of God at some point and some of us got lost
in the physical-ness and grossness of this world.

Besides, I have no doubt that our physical earth bodies were
influenced in some way by mating with Galactic Races.  It is said that
the first intelligent civilizations here were more etheric than
physical.  But regardless of who we are, or might be, whether a Star
Person or not, if we accepted being in a human form, then we must deal
with the challenges of Earth life.  Besides, these special helpers
aren't here to become Gods or have the Earth people follow them, they
are here to show all people that if they can live a peaceful and
fulfilling life, as a human, applying the spiritual principles that
are inherent within their being, so can anyone else do the same --- a
visible example of the Light in action.  Sort of like the #17 Tarot
Card, which shows a woman with one foot on the Earth and one foot in
the water.  And the babies being born now .... such incredible souls
coming to help the Mother Earth anchor this higher octave of Light and
Love.

My wife, who is a Virgo, always ask me: "Why Do You Like to Watch Star
Trek so much, or all these science fiction tv shows, and read Science
Fiction books?  What does this have to do with real life here?"  Maybe
I can't resist because I can clearly see myself (note: if you go to
our Web site, I have a graphic photo of myself in a uniform, you will
know which one when you see it) walking on a bridge of a starship.
Perhaps as Allexzander saids, maybe a part of me is always there
although as the vibration of the Earth rises, the fine line between
waking awarness of one life and another is becoming a blur ... our
multi-being aspect is so close to touching us .... but I know a part
of me is the Wanderer, the Galactic Traveler .... and so, until the
time comes for my invisible (but very present) friends to take me on a
ride on their starship (if they haven't done this already and I am not
permitted to remember yet, I have some suspicions of when this might
have occured) and I will remember, I guess I am like the rest of you,
wanting to help link people together and provide examples of the
incredible potential within mankind.

Again, the writer part of me, it seems like these days, is just
wanting to come out, every moment it has a chance.  Why just put me in
front of the computer and the words come popping out.  It must be
that creative flow that is overshadowing us.  In any case, my point
to all this mess is that there are millions of people who have this
affinity to a connection with their Star Self.  Don't be afraid to
share your story, there is always a way to explain it simply so even
a person who is not totally at the same understanding will have a
seed planted to awaken their Divine Part.  The Star People are no
more special than any other human being or soul, they are just able
to reach in and tap those inner reserves a bit easier but again, it
is more difficult for them to handle the tremendous range of emotions
that Earth people have.  Remember, Love is the most powerful force of
the Universe, the energy of creation, don't judge others, just send
them love and be there to encourage them.

We make a great team don't we?  The key is perservance, never give up
your dream or vision and be a catalyst for peace and light whenever
possible.  ... Enough said Mr. Aries .... let us continue this
discussion below ... who is next here ... ah ah .... why it is our
favorite lad from the Rigelian part of the Universe ... I think he is
from the southern most part of that Star System .... )

===================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 9:12 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Yes, it is difficult to put the two together, as life there is so much
differnt than here.  When people ask me to describe certain events, I
often have a difficult time doing so, as there is nothing really to
relate with here on Earth.  For instance, the time thing I mentioned
ealier, this makes sense to anyone who has experienced it, but try to
explain what living in NOW means to someone who is only aware of
linear movement.  The phrase, "teaching a pig to sing" comes to mind.

>As the spirit project into an (etheric) Rigelian body, and further
>into a (physical) human body?  As I perceive it, as my pleiadian-
>personality is the "Identification Container", which allowed me to
>visit this solar-system, and the local planets, and now finally this
>density in a physical human-body.

Hmm, it does seem that we are experiencing very simular realities
right now. One little interesting point I would like to share with
you, the mechanism by which I was able to project here was located on
a Pleiadian ship.  We have no such device in use by the Directive.  Do
you remember any of the experiences right before coming here?  I do, I
experienced a meditation at a metaphysical fair here in Colorado
Springs, which allowed me to go back to this time.  For the moment I
am going to wait to tell you the sorted details, someone is telling me
to wait.

> >It, too, has yet to learn the eternal lesson of patience <grin>.
>
>HA HA HA, indeed, that's the problem of lot of ETs which are
>remembering, since some of us aren't well able to relate etheric-time
>to earth-time, it's especially seen in different channelings the last
>months. And here I maybe make a bridge to Nidle, his mission, (if you
>allow me to use this term), is about to relate the time-frame of 3D
>(physical) and 5D (etheric), and more people are directing their
>consciousness into that, we may synchronize them ... at least lot of
>people will realize some pieces of their presences in etheric, and
>connect their Higher-Selfs, or Etheric-Double so to speak.

<laugh> The perils of interdimensional communication!  Yes, I guess we
each have experienced this lack of resolution with time.

>I thank you for your sharing, it's like more we talk, more I feel a
>courage to share more from within myself ... because often I feel, I
>should remain in silence, and wait for the right time (patience) ...
>thank's you came across, Allexzander!

Likewise, my friend, this dialog has helped me a great deal in
allowing myself to express to someone the feelings I am having within.
I recently lost my closest friend (he has chosen to pursue other
interests in this reality here on Earth), and he was the only person
with whom I was able to communicate these things I have told you here.
So this has been quite a release for me!

Allexzander

=====================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 14:12 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Marcus answering Lori's post)

>Lori here:
>Yay!!  Another person knows the Michael teachings!! (Something I
>still have to try to convince Rene is worthy of being a 'spiritual'
>teaching, after what they said about "The Aliens Amongst Us"--a poor
>representation of what Michael is all about...well, I don't mean that
>I have to, I just want to....)  :)  (Sorry Rene!!)  I am still trying
>to master this material myself...and would like to add, that after 25
>years of working through channels, Michael has also evolved and have
>said that they did not intend their roles, personality & ego
>descriptions to be 'limitations' on essence, but actually something
>more like pallets with which we paint the artwork of our lives
>with....They have noticed that people have taken some of their
>teachings to extremes, saying, "you can't be this or that" but they
>did not intend it to be like that....the more

Hmm, this happens a lot around this world doesn't it!  Yes, I think
Lord Sananda had the same problem the times he was here.  Everything
taken on its literal value, rather than the deeper spiritual meaning.

>modern teachings given by a number of channels in classes (like the
>ones I'm taking) reflect this more open and non-limiting aspect, that
>show how the roles and overleaves are tools for the evolution of
>spirit, that help us give names to feelings, and ways to understand
>(intellectually) who we are better, and why....at least, it has done
>this for me. I have been working on bringing some of the basic
>Michael teachings to LW-L but so far have only gotten one piece done
>(the Time Lords have not given me enough Time to finish a second part
>yet!!  Ha ha ha!)

I hope that you are graced with some more time, Lori.  I greatly enjoy
the teachings of Lord Michael, his energy has always been very true
for me.  I once had the opportunity to purchase an amulet that had his
etheric picture drawn on it, but I did not get it at the time.  I hope
to be able to get it the next fair coming up in April.

>One book you may be particularly interested in is a very small red
>book by Emily Baumbach called, "Parallel Universes: Your Other
>Selves"...I am beginning to understand more aspects of this tiny book
>which is packed with info on how you exist outside of time and space,
>and also in time and space simultaneously with other aspects of your
>Self...In there, Michael says, "Remember: time, space, and thought
>are all the same thing."  I'm still blown away by this concept when i
>get confirmation of it...and I have, right here on this list (and at
>the bookstore,

Yes, such a simply concept, but it does often blow my mind when it
comes true.  They are the same, the very same.

>yesterday, and today...and so on)  I mean, of course we are all
>connected by being a part of the Whole, the One, whatever you want to
>call it (Michael calls it the Tao)  but when you get out to where we
>are now on an essence-fragment level, and you've just gotten used to
>the idea that you have past, future, and parallel lives, (but it's
>all you) and if you are like me and are just really starting to
>remember your other connections, and just learning you can connect to
>these other aspects, your I AM presence, and to others on an essence
>level, wow....I just get really blown away....(and being a scholar
>essence with an artisan essence twin, I want to know everything...and
>be creative with it too!!  I do fit my role pretty well...but it is
>not a limitation.  :)  )  We forget so much being here, and I am just
>starting to remember, and I want to thank you all for being here on
>this list, and sharing your thoughts/feelings, it has been such an
>experience for me, meeting lightworkers, learning about things I
>never dreamed of even 6 months ago, before I found more Michael
>teachings, Spirit-WWW, and now this mail list with you wonderful
>people!  I have made my first contact with another aspect of my Self
>here (at first I thought it was a scary thought that there might be
>other people in this world who were as weird as I am....ha ha ha! Or
>even from another world, like I was remembering.)  But it's been
>soooo great!

<laugh> I had the same feeling!  You mean there are other people out
there that feel the same way???!!

>Things I thought of when I was 14, things I thought were an over-
>active imagination (hi Gerardus) I'm finding out were really true, or
>perhaps I have made them come true...hmmmm??  Maybe I just put all of
>it into this parallel universe, where I am writing to you from, and
>in another somewhere, will not go through the Ascension?  I am
>striving for the unconditional ascension, though, where we all go,
>parallel or not!  Nevertheless, I AM.  (hey I'm ready for that photon
>belt...bring it in!  I'd say my husband's not quite ready, but I'll
>make sure he gets dragged along for the ride--I know he won't want to
>miss this one! And about the laundry Gerardus, I suggest buying extra
>underwear...;))

Truth is in the eye of the creator.  This reminds me of another quote
I onced used as a message header, "I will see it when I believe it."
Rather than the old way of believing when you see it.

>Beam me up, Allexzander!!  :)

You got it!   ................    Allexzander

====================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 20:37:02 -0700
From: Flemming Funch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parallel Lifes [was Re: The Positive UFO friends?]
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

> Flemming:
> >I've had the experience of several incarnations melting together,
> >what is referred to as soul-braiding. Before 1979 I have two
> >parallel sets of memories, both going back to parallel lifetimes
> >before that.

Rene:
>Soul-Braiding ... did you met this person in physical? I ask because,
>just the last months, I met people who keep aspect of my own, the
>Self, where the physical personality is a part of, a seed ... ie.
>when I met a person, it was like we exchanged memory of each own, the
>essence ... the "teaching of soul" ... I was talking with Lori direct
>by email, and shared some feelings having 'aspects' in other bodies
>... so far, I know that in two years such a 'soul-braiding' comes to
>me, where my body has to change dramatically to keep a new
>constellation of the Self ... it's somehow difficult to describe ...
>(I feel we are here really going into some kind of new area of
>talking) ...

The two incarnations that braided had not met physically. They had
some things in common, such as Zeta interactions, but were on
different continents.

I kind of expect sometimes that my next step is to physically run into
other incarnations of myself, and come to terms with it. I sometimes
feel I am missing some vital parts of the whole story that another
incarnation of me has, and we somehow need to get together.

> Flemming:
> >Once last year I had the experience of getting into a space where I
> >was aware of existing in 24 incarnations on Earth simultaneously,
> >in present time. Quite amazing, I suddenly had access to different
> >languages and memories, and there was kind of a "control room"
> >where I could easily monitor and switch in and out of these various
> >lives and what was going on in them. It lasted for about a half
> >hour and then I dropped out of it again.

Rene:
>It sounds like you were experiences taking up different time-lines
>and allow yourself to keep it ... the description of 'control room'
>is quite well taken ... I somehow was coming earlier a similar
>feeling, but I was somehow afraid to allow it to happen, just too
>many impressions started to flood my being, and I was finally to less
>grounded to sort and keep that all in me ... Flemming, you are highly
>gifted that you allowed yourself this to happen ... Thank's you
>shared this with us!
>

It was actually a very stable and peaceful position in that I found
that I could understand all of these things at the same time, and it
all made so much sense, was logically organized and everything.

In a way, being aware of only one incarnation at a time is so much
more confusing, as you don't have the full picture.

Oh well, I am sure I will recover something like that again. Heading
for multi-dimensionality big-time.

- Flemming
    o                                                         o
   / \------------------ Flemming A. Funch ------------------/ \
  / * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole Systems / * \
 / * * \                 [e-mail]                 / * * \
o-------o ------http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/--------o-------o
======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 23:45 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Rene:
>Yup ... same to me ... more we are talking, more things appear in my
>head, where I long time awaited to share ... I experienced often that
>I was trying to share impression from the 'ships', but finally felt
>in me too, I should keep it for myself ... and somehow I knew also, I
>have to wait until there are those, who remember, for the others (who
>don't remember) it will simply make no sense at all ... (or sounds
>like StarTrek episodes)

<laugh>  Yes, they often do sound like Star Trek episodes don't they?
My experiences are a little closer to that of Star Wars.  It does an
excellent job showing the Orion Empire vs the Resistance.

>I far I know, no - I'm not ... three years ago another soul-aspect
>came into the body, another left, but they are parts of my Self,
>soul-aspects. I may use another view to share what I mean: some past-
>lifes, different aspects lived, which I call today 'my past-lifes',
>but primary there were a bunch of aspects who lived different parts
>of one existance, like frequent changes during the existance. But as
>said, it doesn't occured that often, it was really dependent of
>changes in my life, didn't had to be tremendous, but there were like
>'stages', who I made a leap, without having outer-influences or
>triggers.

I have not experienced this myself, but I understand what you mean.
Sort of like swapping to disk on a computer eh?  You don't have enough
memory to hold everything that you are, so you swap in the necessary
parts when they are needed for execution...

>Three years ago (as posted in 1-2 posts before), I was "in trouble",
>and released a more or less deep pattern being a victim, I kept even
>several existances in me (always the same aspect kept it), and after
>the patterns was balanced from the other time-line (past), this
>aspect could complete the cycle of the pattern and left the body-
>personality.
>
>Honestly I have to say, I don't know much about walk-ins, maybe I
>came across too many explanations, which didn't mapped my own
>personal experience well, so, no walk-in. :)  I know that some people
>are sometimes very very flexible with this term, ie. as KenDon uses
>the term (so far I read his articles), anyway, I may prefere to
>describe it not with the use of "Walk-In".

I have not studied this topic much either.  I know that I am not a
walk-in, and I don't know of any close friends that I have that are
walk-ins.  Yes, I agree, I think that the term is used very liberally.

>:) (I hope I don't dominate lw-l too much with sharing all that, so I
>    make it short as possible)

I don't think that you have much to worry here, there are many of us,
or at least myself, who are interested in hearing you!

>More the embodied Ashtar-Command could collect 3D impressions and
>relate to etheric, more the scenarios changed and got also more
>concrete ... we learned to handle both planes better to each other.
>While this communication was started, some of the Ashtar-Command, ie.
>Ashtar himself, Soltec, Korton and various other commanders were very
>urgent in sharing and revealing the etheric reality, and could wake-
>up a lot of embodied Starseeds who relate to the Ashtar-Command.

I have found that Ashtar has an incredible energy to him, his simple
presence can spark change.

>Parallel, other lightgroups connected the Melchizdek-Order, Metatron-
>Group,and several other Angelical Groups etc ... each group woke up
>their own embodied entities (means, people felt drawn to specific
>groups, seminars and books or had experiences related to them).

I do remember much of Metatron.  I have not read that much from them
on this plane, however they were instrumental in helping us, many,
many years ago.

>During the work we did, we shared (all of the group) our names ...
>and some were very suprised ... and then few people started saying, I
>will call you as etheric-presence for guidance and so ... and finally
>I had the impression, I gave a key to others, which they couldn't
>handle ... didn't understood on 3D.

Yes, this name can be used unwisely by those that do not understand.
A very real risk.

>I maybe may say too, knowing the etheric-name isn't something deeply
>necessary, or "important" ... but it helps to relate the physical
>personality with the etheric personality by using this name in 3D.
>Each time when used, the connection gets stronger ... (Allexzander
>may add here some own experiences and feelings so I suppose)

Yes, you are right, it does help, a great deal.  I have known my
etheric name for most of my life here on Earth, however I told it to
only one other person, who used it very rarely.  I eventually choose
to use it more and more.  Then two things happened, one, when used it
helped me remember things better.  I simply came in better contact
with my actual spirit self, and therefore became more in line with
who/what/when I am.  And then two, I found that when people addressed
me with the name when asking questions, I could tune into their
presence much more readily.  By simply asking a question while they
had my name in their minds, I could easily connect with them, and
answer their question more directly.

>Anyway, I saw, that my name is somehow known, and I don't wanted that
>people expect lot of my physical personality, and felt like tearing
>on me, before I was ready ... I'm still don't feel ready yet ... and
>I'm still in process to prepare the physical personality ... to keep
>"it" fully.

I look forward to the day you find yourself ready!

>Finally the friend and me decided not to reveal our names to people,
>those who remember 5D will recognize us ... but it's not really a big
>deal or issue, just a way to prevent too high expectations ...

I understand.

>As Allexzander and Lori know me more clear, as I start to recognize
>you as well better, and maybe some of you all on the lightwork-l,
>feel drawn and nearness some of us who speak and write... remember,
>the way people speak and express themselves, is the way they have
>embodied themselves and channeling their own presence into, as
>Allexzander said ... we are primarly channeling ourSelves into this
>plane ... I feel very very glad I was able to share more on this ...
>I am deeply thankful to you all, who are on Lightwork-l, may you just
>reader or active writer ... You All Are In My Heart!

As we are thankful to hear it.  Very nice words, thank you.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 23:44 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

>Lori:
>I agree, fascinating, Captain....

Now there is a blast from the past!  I don't know if that was meant
for Rene or myself, however I haven't been called that for a few
years... The Resistance used a slightly different military ranking
system than used here on Earth.  For one, anyone who happened to be in
charge of a particular event, regardless of their actual rank, was
called a commander.

>I wanted to interrupt the conversation (where I bailed out quite a
>while back) to tell you mainly Allexzander and Rene, that I have been
>thoroughly enjoying this conversation, as it has been, I feel, very
>close to the heart of matters I feel connected to with my vague
>memmories of being an ET here for some so-called "mission" that I'm
>still trying to figure out what it is exactly, but have 'known' for
>some time now, at

I had wondered exactly what had happened to you, I was a little
concerned actually.  You seemed to almost jump out of the realm
completely!  I am glad that you have been enjoying the conversation
though, and also glad that you decided to add to it!

>least, there is a reason for being here now.  You guys are like,
>throwing out these little 'keys' that I pick up, and try them in the
>locks on doors that have not been opened in a long time for me, and I
>am finding some of these keys are unlocking some of these doors....I
>am fascinated too by the domino-effect this has had in my 3-D life,
>as I have been finding these doorways lead to many other people's
>doors as well...to make the analogy.  Rene, I am still trying to
>comprehend your ideas from RKM Corner on these different realities,
>maybe we use different words to say the same things, but I am not
>sure what to ask to clarify yet...perhaps another 'time'...like
>Allexzander says below.

Yes, indeed.  My memories where somewhat concealed until a certain
time, when it then became necessary for them to surface.  Over the
period of three months, I went from only aware on a vague level, to
complete awareness.  Needless to say, the domino effect was in full
force, just about every memory would spawn five more.

>Lori:
>I'm very glad to hear that you are so open about who you are,
>Allexzander, it is very inspiring....A while back you mentioned a
>friend you have from a star system in the third star in Orion's
>belt,(that one is Mintaka, or Alniham?  I forget...)  I wondered if
>you could tell me more about the people of that system too?

Actually I do not know that much about them.  I did a channeling
session for him, he was very interested in learning about how he came
about landing here on Earth.  An interesting story, I will see if I
can get his permission to tell it.  We had plans to do another session
for him so that he could learn a little more.  Perhaps then I will try
to have him ask me about the people that are there.

>About spirit-names, I'll share the one I got (or found?) when I was
>about 14, but I didn't know it was really me at the time...it was
>Alena (I used to spell it Elaina but it didn't seem quite right) and
>I would draw pictures of her, and crystal spaceships, forms of which
>I have gotten confirmation from others that they are really like I
>drew them....This name really resonated with me, but it would be too
>intense to have people calling me this or anything similar, so I
>don't use it casually.  I have a difficult time staying grounded as
>it is, so it is easier for me to handle being called Lori, at least
>for now.  My aspect of Alena connects to Sirius the most, and also
>Vega, the Pleiades, and the Angelic and Devic Realms, but I find more
>and more connections all the time (most are here on Earth or the
>Solar System.)

Yes, when you find the name, it resonates with you very well.  It is
something to get used to, my heart does skip a beat every once and a
while when I hear others use it.  I wish you good luck with the
grounding of your name, I hope that you will be using it soon, it is a
*beautiful* name!

>Lori:
>I believe we all have guardians of some sort watching over us, so to
>speak, and they can help us a lot if we are open and let them in...I
>know mine have helped 'save' me from disaster many times, when I've
>been open enough to listen....they also have been doing massive work
>on my bodily structure, preparing the way for (I'm hoping!!)
>Ascension, not only physical, but much more than that!

I too have had much work done to me.  I know of a few times where I
have woke up in the morning, completely drained of energy from all the
work that happened the night before.  Often I have spells of complete
exhaustion, where all I want to do is sleep for hours on end.

>Lori:
>Oh, it looks like your phrase got cut off??  I didn't see any more of
>it.  Anyway, I like your views and posts here, it helps me start
>remembering many things too....like the Ships, I know them.... :)

Yes, it did get cut off, I have sent the last part already...at least
I hope!  In any case, you are welcome, I hope that they are helping,
I hope that they will serve you.

Till in the stars we meet,
Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:06:50 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

 Allexzander:
 >Yes, it is difficult to put the two together, as life there is so
 >much differnt than here.  When people ask me to describe certain
 >events, I often have a difficult time doing so, as there is nothing
 >really to relate with here on Earth.  For instance, the time thing I
 >mentioned ealier, this makes sense to anyone who has experienced it,
 >but try to explain what living in NOW means to someone who is only
 >aware of linear movement.  The phrase, "teaching a pig to sing"
 >comes to mind.
 >
 >>As the spirit project into an (etheric) Rigelian body, and further
 >>into a (physical) human body?  As I perceive it, as my pleiadian-
 >>personality is the "Identification Container", which allowed me to
 >>visit this solar-system, and the local planets, and now finally
 >>this density in a physical human-body.
 >
 >Hmm, it does seem that we are experiencing very simular realities
 >right now.  One little interesting point I would like to share with
 >you, the mechanism by which I was able to project here was located
 >on a Pleiadian ship.  We have no such device in use by the ]
 >Directive.  Do you remember any of the experiences right before
 >coming here?

Hmm, so far I can share some feelings ... as I had to focus myself
into human-consciousness, as mentioned, I had to learn to focus on
similar densities on astral-planes, as Sun and Saturn (which I recall
the best), and I've got a way to keep a matrix, where I could split
myself into another stream, which I used to project into a human-body
... I'm not remembering a 'device', much more a matrix which allowed
me to split into this density as well, I've got lot of assisting of
entities, I associate with Metatron, which is a 'master' of splitting
energies ...
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:18:04 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

 >Rene:
 >>More the embodied Ashtar-Command could collect 3D impressions and
 >>relate to etheric, more the scenarios changed and got also more
 >>concrete ... we learned to handle both planes better to each other.
 >>While this communication was started, some of the Ashtar-Command,
 >>ie. Ashtar himself, Soltec, Korton and various other commanders
 >>were very urgent in sharing and revealing the etheric reality, and
 >>could wake-up a lot of embodied Starseeds who relate to the Ashtar-
 >>Command.
 >
 Allexzander:
 >I have found that Ashtar has an incredible energy to him, his simple
 >presence can spark change.

It's a tremendous energy he radiates ... I can't describe it ... it's
so powerful in its intensity ... when I had an 'encounter' with him
... it was like anything I knew about my 3D existance was gone, and
love flooded my whole being ... just helping remembering my purpose,
why I'm here ... that's moment I felt timeless ... in the NOW ...

 >>Parallel, other lightgroups connected the Melchizdek-Order,
 >>Metatron-Group, and several other Angelical Groups etc ... each
 >>group woke up their own embodied entities (means, people felt drawn
 >>to specific groups, seminars and books or had experiences related
 >>to them).
 >
 >I do remember much of Metatron.  I have not read that much from them
 >on this plane, however they were instrumental in helping us, many,
 >many years ago.

Metatron .... seems we both share the same impressions ... strange, I
didn't talked much at all about Metatron to others, only few face-to-
face ...
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 12:43 PST
From: David Meurin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

>>Dear Rene,
>> Thankyou for sharing this. Several years ago I had an experience
>> like this. I've never discussed it with anyone. While on the sun I
>> felt that there was no space between myself and the other beings-
>> the fire like entities. I was aware of our unity in a way that goes
>> beyond words like brotherhood, friendship, family. In all our words
>> of connection there is a sense of separation. Reading your
>> experience has helped me to understand and accept the reality of my
>> experience. Since that journey, there have been other trips to
>> other places and growing awareness of past lives. I feel like I am
>> becoming who I am.The I is fading, growing into something  larger
>> but with less mass. Life in the physical world is becoming like the
>> crest of a wave moving in the ocean. There are no lines to divide
>> things with.
>
>David,
>
>I just wanted to let you know how much truth I am feeling from your
>post here.  There are few moments where I have felt such a level of
>sincerity and commitment to this noble event, and this one here is
>certainly one of them.  The Directive's goal is final integration
>into Source, the final step to being ONE again.  We are all searchers
>for this, your post gives me a warm fuzzy inside to know we are all
>making it!
>
>With life,
>Allexzander
>
Dear Allexzander,
 Thankyou for your kind and generous response. A friend told me this
story:

   Once upon a time, there was an enormous hole in the ground.
Everyone fell into the hole. Some people tried to climb out, but the
walls were too steep and slippery for the best climbers. The hole was
too deep for the best jumpers. The best builders couldn't find the
materials to make ladders.
   Some people gave up trying to get out, deciding that life in a hole
is all there is. "The light coming from above is just an illusion,"
they said. Others tried to develop superhuman jumping and climbing
powers. Many lifetimes were dedicated to this.
   Then someone said,"We can help each other to get out of the hole.
If I stand on your shoulders, someone can stand on mine, and one of us
can get to the top. Then he can pull the next person up, and
eventually we can all get out of the hole." - and that's what they
did.
....love, David

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 11:12 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

> >I do remember much of Metatron.  I have not read that much from
> >them on this plane, however they were instrumental in helping us,
> >many, many years ago.
>
>Metatron .... seems we both share the same impressions ... strange, I
>didn't talked much at all about Metatron to others, only few face-to-
>face ...

I have found that Metatron (or any of the trons for that matter) tend
to be more integrated into resolution than conflict, and that is when
you will see them.  We finally found them in the last stages, when we
finally realized that you cannot fight fire with fire, Metatron showed
up and simply said, yes.

I remember him, more as a wave, a source of energy rather than a type
of energy. There were no words, just impressions, feelings, love.  He
entered the temple of my mind, and in a simple flash became part of
the walls, the curtains.  His knowledge would just lie there, as if it
were a thing, not an idea.  It was different somehow than Asthar or
Lord Michael.  Less of a single entity, and more of a collective.  I
know that Metatron represents a group of beings, however that doesn't
prepare you for what that feels like when he surrounds you.  You do
become part of that group, but at the same time keep your
individuality.

Very powerful...   Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 11:12 MST
From: Marcus Reinart <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Positive UFO friends?
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

>Hmm, so far I can share some feelings ... as I had to focus myself
>into human-consciousness, as mentioned, I had to learn to focus on
>similar densities on astral-planes, as Sun and Saturn (which I recall
>the best), and I've got a way to keep a matrix, where I could split
>myself into another stream, which I used to project into a human-body
>... I'm not remembering a 'device', much more a matrix which allowed
>me to split into this density as well, I've got lot of assisting of
>entities, I associate with Metatron, which is a 'master' of splitting
>energies ...

Yes, this sounds familiar, not the way I did it, for certain reasons.
I think that this sounds much more like a spirit-based way of doing
the same thing I did on a more physical level.  I think that it
depends on the results you want to reach, rather you want to be
conscious of living two simultaneous lives, or want to experience the
true human experience.

Allexzander

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 10:17:51 -0600
From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: To All: Positive UFO Friends
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

Hi fellow Lightworkers,

At the moment, here in Chi-Town, I am doing a class called "The
Manifestation of the Aquarian Age" and some of the materials I use
come from post on Internet (newsgroups or in the mailing lists.

An idea came to me that probably in our discussion of the Positive UFO
Friends, exists a sample of the various viewpoints we have about the
Aliens visiting us.  Over the next complete of weeks I am going to
join all the messages and come up with a document.  Is there anyone
who has participated in these posts that would not like their ideas
shared (as I don't know how the information will go out)?  I would be
happy to share a copy of what I come up with to those interested and
we might post this on our Web Site which we hope to get setup in the
next week or two.

I will also be using including information from the threads "Sirian,
Pleidains ..." and Galactic Council Membership"

Always good to ask permission first ....

Thank you, Peace & Light

Joshua

======================================================================

From: "Donna Wilson" <[e-mail]>
Date:          Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:22:04 EST5EDT
Organization:  Continuing Education, Cornell Univ.
To: [e-mail]
Subject:       DOCUMENT

My dear friend.

Please!

Allow me to confess, though I try to keep up with the posting on the
list my computer time is limited in the extreme.  Consequently, I have
found myself wading through piles of messages, reading furiously to
retrieve information and missing more than I dare to imagine.

You have my prayers for your abilities of wisdom, disernment, and
light for your project.  I myself have not had the time to respond to
anything, and anyways many with greater knowledge than I seem to be
teaching many lessons here.  I, having resolved and embraced myself
the student, would be grateful to you if you would be so kind as to
include me on the list of people you send this marvelous document to.
Then I shall be at ease, feeling as though I have seen a preview of a
"Light-Movie"-"Light-Book" by those who have my heart and energy.

Again, I offer my energies and prayers for your effort.  Blessing to
you.  I pass on to you a lesson I received through TYME as of our last
session, "When you heal yourself, realize that at that time you are
healing others."  The light group is at its own level aware of this,
and no one is now better aware of this than I since I receive much
healing from everyone.

Thank you, Joshua.  I favor that name since I read the "Joshua" books
by a priest whose name now escapes me.  I love the knowing practices
of breaking down walls which of course is what Joshua is all about.
You seem to fit this, from the posts that I have read.  Now other
friends are teaching me that if I cannot break the wall in front of me
then I can metamorphisize to go beyond it.  You may break (by the
making of this document) and I will MM, then I will look forward to
seeing a different plane.

Love, light and blessings

Donna Wilson
School of Continuing Education and Summer Sessions
Cornell University

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:31:16 +0100
From: Rene Mueller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: To All: Positive UFO Friends
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Rene, The Master Lightworker, responding to Joshua's
       request about sharing this file with others .. hold on ...)

:) Yes ... so far for me, so long the thing isn't sold ... and brought
and shared in an accurate context (ie. lecture and so), my ok you have
... :)

I also thought to collect it ... but if you do it, great :) since your
english and writer-capability is better than mine :)
   ,
Rene

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 10:41:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: To All: Positive UFO Friends
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Lori stepping in to answer Joshua's request ... oh boy ...:-) )
>
Lori here:
(Um, I don't know how much I participated in this, but i did to a
certain extent...) It's OK with me, I liked the discussion a lot.

I'd like to see what you come up with when you're done too Joshua,
please. Thanks,
Lori

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:19:39 -0700
From: gerardus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: To All: Positive UFO Friends
To: "Light Workers List" <[e-mail]>

(*** - Gerardus -- Mr. Joy & Laughter says his opinion now )

Hi Joshua...

I'm not sure whether there was anything from on there, but I'd say:
I'm all in favor!  *!* Gerardus

(Editor note: Gerardus you are so ... what is the word, quick somebody
 help me out here, you all know what I mean.....)

======================================================================

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:15:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Lori E. Tostado" <[e-mail]>
To: "Richard L. Shapiro" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: To All: Positive UFO Friends

On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Richard L. Shapiro wrote:

Joshua:
> Thanks Lori, I will send it on when I finish, I will include
> material through today.

>From what I can tell from your various posts, you are a pretty aware
>being, I hope you continue with your insights.

Joshua,
Thank you for this, I also love to see your posts (I usually get
"feelings" about the person writing from how they say things, sort of
like, if I feel like I know this person on another level, it registers
eventually, and there are more than a few people here who seem to
'resonate', if you know what I mean?  I get that from you, too.)
>
> I opened this dialogue up because the UFO/Et question is coming up
> this year and I think we need to be aware of all aspects and also to
> help others to understand it.

I'm wondering what you mean by the UFO/ET question coming up this
year...???
What question is it and why this year?
I agree about awareness and understanding it...

(Editor's Note: I answered Lori's question somewhere else and couldn't
find it so I will answer here in this file:

By UFO/ET question I am referring to a definitive answer that we are
most certainly have contact with extraterrestrials beings (as probably
all of the members of this mailing list are aware without any doubt)
but to the common person, they will have some tangible physical proof
that will be difficult to refute!!  I say this year, because,
listening to my own inner guidance, one of my invisible friends has
been whispering to watch and pay attention in 1995, that certain
events we know must happen but  for some reason haven't fully
manifested will begin in this year, and  those of us who have
volunteered to be here (i.e. "The Mission") would soon find ourselves
in deman to help others understand these incredible transformations
(spiritually and dimensionally) which will be catalyzed by the
absolute appearance of UFOs in our skies for all to see and quite
possibly extraterrestrials walking amongst us in their true forms. )

> I hope to finish it by next week.  I still need to put it all into
> one file and then I am reformating so I can print it out for my
> class.
>
> Thanks for your participation, I am around if there is any questions
> I can answer, seems these days I have information gushing out ...
> typical Aries
> I guess .....   Joshua
>
Ha ha ha!  I guess I don't know any 'typical' Aries (or I just don't
know much about astrology--yeah that's it.)  Would you say I'm a
typical Gemini??
:)

If you have any questions for me too, I'd be happy to chat with you.

Peace to you,
Lori

======================================================================

                      FINAL COMMENTS AND SUMMARY

Well dear brothers and sisters, there you have it ... a pretty intense
communication had by all in the Lightworkers List.  I thought it might
be appropriate to summarize what we all did talk about.  Clearly the
subject matter of UFOs, Extraterrestrials, our real identities as
Children of the Infinite Creator and many other things were briefly
touched in these messages or soul conversations.

I think it is pretty clear that the vibration of our planet is getting
much faster these days and we are very close to moving into higher
octaves of existence (Ascension was of course mentioned in the
messages which is nothing more then moving into a higher dimension and
linking with that part of ourselves which has always existed with us).
It seems to me that the people drawn to this mailing list all feel
they have a Light work to do and have had a sequence of events which
have slowly (too slowly some may say) revealed to them this work
(remember now when we are being ourselves and enjoying what we are
doing then work is not work but a joyous expression of the Creator
through us, usually when we are spontaneous -- the method I am using
to write these words, 1st time folks, is when it happens).  In this
conversation some of us discovered that our experiences of the other
parts of reality (can be perceived or remembered even when in a human
body) or other parts of ourselves, that this spiritual or etheric
piece is emerging and in the future Golden Age, all the people will be
at this level.

The initial message placed was trying to understand the contact we are
having on the Earth at this time with Extraterrestrials (or perhaps
these beings are our true ancestors - our missing link).  Questions
were posed should we pay any attention to the more controlling ones
such as the Greys or are all ETs basically interferring with life on
Earth by having contact with Humans before we ready.  I think it is
quite clear that there are numerous opinions on this subject and
perhaps the only point we can say all parties agreed to is that we are
having this contact and depending upon a person's orientation and
attitude, they will draw whatever experience they need.  In the end,
it seems that this contact is for the purpose of waking humanity up
that God's Universe is far and beyond just the reality we perceive
here on Earth. There will be no going back to the old days, when
things were quiet and we had enough just to deal with ourselves.

Also it seems from my own personal research and some of the side
conversations we had in this thread of messages, that occupants of
UFOs or spacecraft have been contacting many difficult cultures and
civlizations (ancient) on our world for a long time and that these
alien races bring some form of understanding about our spiritual
essence.  Certainly as man becomes more aware of this part of his
essence, the so-called miraculous actions of the ETs, their philosophy
of life and such, will be better understood and integrated.

Thus far, this contact has been done behind the scenes or subtly but
I received the impression from those who participated in this
conversation, that we are all feeling a sense of the Truth being
revealed soon.  It was amazing to watch at the end, how the messages
progressed we were able to help trigger memories and knowledge within
each other.

Now is the time to stand up and share with others what we know and who
we are ... as my guidance has shared and as members of this list are
doing each in their own way ... this higher information must be
shared. And, it is important to stay in touch with others of like mind
as the coming challenges will require cooperation and commitment to
each other.

I salute each of you, my dear brothers and sisters, as through this
experience we have all learned more and hopefully have a bit of a
clearer picture of the exciting and challening events ahead.  The
Mother Earth is calling us know to work with her to bring this planet
into the Golden Age.  And I know within my being this will happen.
For a part of me is already there.

In Peace & Light always ... just another networker on the path,

Joshua alias Illinois Shapiro

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Ooops .... it is a time of celebration .... just wanted to throw out
one personal note ... we have a Web Site for our organization which
is called V J Enterprises.  The address of this site is:

http://www.protree.com/vjentpr/

One and all are invited to take a peek.  It was first opened on
March 8th, 1995 so depending upon when you read this file, we may
have more goodies there.  Hope you enjoy it.

Woo.... this is Illinios Shapiro ... over and out .....

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